Sunday, December 16, 2007

Does Multi-Level Marketing have a "dark side"?

As some of you know, a good friend of mine (that I have never met) keeps a blog called He reports on hoaxes and scams of all sorts. It was through Pink Truth that I met him as he did an article about Mary Kay that they linked to and as they say, "the rest is history".

Today he has posted an elegantly simple overview of the nature and consequential inherent problems that the MLM model of distribution can encounter.

To give you a little tease, he concludes:

Personally, as many readers here already know, I am not a fan of multi level marketing.
However, I am aware that many people can, and do, earn a good level of income from various types of network marketing.
When you consider that any business, MLM or not, works on a hierarchical backbone then it does put some anti-mlm complaints into perspective.
Many of the MLMs that I have reviewed have appeared on these pages because I am predisposed to finding the ones that may be bad apples, due to the nature and theme of this site.
As stated above, everyone is different and so we all perceive multi level marketing in different ways too. What works for one person may prove to be a spectacular failure to another. What makes one person a millionaire can appear to be a scam to the next recruit who joins.
Ultimately, anyone interested in joining a MLM should perform due diligence and make their own mind up, without any external pressures affecting that decision.

He also requests other peoples opinions about MLM's in general:

I’ve said before that multi level marketing is dead.

I’ve also aired my views on several different MLMs too. Please feel free to leave comments on those posts.

All I ask is that you respect peoples’ rights to have differing opinions. Feel free to disagree with anyone as vehemently as you like, just focus on what they have said and not on their individual personalities!

If you feel strongly about anything I have written then you are welcome to submit your own article, as long as it is helpful rather than a sales pitch - please contact me if you would like to do this.

I have found Scam (as he is called on his site) to be very open-minded and very intelligent, as well as witty and fun! He and I have both endorsed each other on our sites (you can find a link to his site in my links area, and he let me write an article for his site about Mary Kay

I would be greatly honored if a few of you would go leave him a comment about what you have found to be true in your experience with MLM. He is great at responding to comments and genuinely welcomes all points of view. As you hopefully picked up, he shares my emphasis on disagreeing as vehemently as you wish as long as you don't attack someone personally!

You can find this article by clicking here. If you have time, give it a read and leave you thoughts if you have any!

Thanks all


  1. Thanks for the link 'David'.

    I see your feedburner count is on the rise.. how many regular visitors are you getting here now??

  2. MK is Network Marketing, there is a fine line here and I know that
    When you are in a true MLM the commission on the sales of the product are high enough to make a profit!! Amway (which is now Quixtar, and nuSkin and Herbalife and companies like that you only make big money if you recruit. Sales companies like MK, Avon, Pampered Chef and others like Home Interior the commission is 30 percent and higher and you can make money whether you rexruit or not. If one looks over the compensation plans of MK and the other companies I mentioned YES to
    make BIG money you need to recruit,
    however if you have a few team members and are consistent in personal sales you can make an extra 500-800 per month.

  3. Hi Scam,

    My pleasure.

    Feedburner is weird man. It will shoot up to the high teens, occasionally into the twenties and then drop down to 14 and 15.

    I am not sure who is subscribing and then getting bored with me, but it is interesting! And always on the slow crawl up!

    I get between 100 and 200 visitors/day and between 300 and 400 page views on average.

    thanks for stopping by, I hope some of the good people here will stop by and leave a message for you on your site!

  4. I made a mistake I meant to say in a true MLM the commission on the product is so low that you cant make a living selling only recruiting!!!!

  5. Feedburner shows how many people READ your feed, NOT how many are subscribed, so I imagine it goes low on Sunday/Monday then shoots up on Tuesay?

    Mine varied between 135-180 depending on the day of the week.

    1-200 visitors is good.. is it coming from comments you have left on blogs or search engines, or do you have a secret marketing technique?

  6. I think the "secret marketing technique" is that this is a hot subject with myriad viewpoints.

    Until now, I don't think there have been very many (if any) places where both sides could come together and discuss ALL aspects and ALL views.

    I seem to draw more people from the Mary Kay is good camp than the Mary Kay is bad camp. I am not sure if that is because of my personal bent... or because the negative side is only really effective if no counter-view is presented.

    I do have one very well spoken contributor that had a very bad experience and I believe has helped tremendously in expressing the things that anyone should be cautious of as they approach Mary Kay! I just wish more people like her would join the discussion.

    It is harder to reach out to the ones that are against MK as their sites are VERY limiting in who they allow to post! I suspect that in time, they may notice me and join in... at least I hope!

    I did not understand (and am still a little confused about) feed readers.

    So if someone is subscribed to my feed, but does not read it that particular day, it does not reflect in the "number"? OR Are all subscriptions counted in addition to someone reading elsewhere?

    This is all so new to me!

    Colleen, just read your comment on Scamtypes, thank you!

  7. If you have 100 people subscribed to your feed, but only 20 view it in any given day, then the next day the feedburner chicklet will say 20 readers.

    Hope that helps!

  8. “Until now, I don't think there have been very many (if any) places where both sides could come together and discuss ALL aspects and ALL views.”


    Ya gotta be kidding me.....

    How many of my posts have you deleted?

    I am not pro MK.

    Your suggestion that yours is a site that permits input from both sides of the issue strains the bounds of credulity. I’ve got no problem with your decisions to keep some posts from appearing here. This is a common practice among sites which delete posts presenting information counter to their stated missions, i.e.,,, etc.

    However, your practice of presenting yourself as the overseer of a site which allows input from both sides of the MK issue is laughable. If you’re not going to allow posts from folks like me who decry the stuff MKC and the MK sales force do to unsuspecting recruiting targets, that’s OK. Just don’t present yourself as something you’re not, don’t present yourself as an outlet for opinions from both sides.

    Why not rectify your stand? Either stop presenting yourself as a place for “both sides” of the discussion or post my deleted message about my friend’s place in Florida. What’s more, when are you going to publish your objective standards regarding“evidence”? Why should I (or other pro MK clarity contributors) be subjected to an evidentiary standard which is not applied to the claims presented by pro “opportunity” folks? I’ve read the unchallenged pro MK claims presented by other contributors here; they’ve obviously not been deleted. You r application of supposed standards regarding evidence is arbitrary and capricious.


  9. Blessed,

    Sorry, no I am not kidding.

    2 of your posts. Until you reposted this comment in an unrelated category. So now 3.

    I know you are not pro MK

    I allow INPUT from both sides yes.

    If you feel the need for me to explain again why your comments were deleted, I apologize, but I simply don't have the time or the energy.

    You truly confuse me. You seem to have a very good vocabulary. You certainly can put your thoughts together well. So by all appearances you are probably one of the most intelligent people visiting this site. However, you suddenly become like a brick wall when it comes to understanding what this site is about.

    I don't know what the "actual numbers" are, but it must be close to half of the posts that I put up here are straight from Pink Truth. I don't know how I could add more without going out of balance that direction.

    I cannot force anyone on PT, PS, or others to post here. I wish they would. I would invite Pink Truth members on their site... but I do not promote my website in comments without permission. I have not received permission there yet... actually, I was banned.

    You seem fond of leaving spam like comments. Why don't you leave a post on Pink Truth for me inviting them to post here? I would welcome some dialog here. I am not going to create fake personalities here. What you see is what you get. You are the only person I have had to delete and you SHOULD know why.

    It seems that you are the only person that feels I don't allow all perspectives.

    Regarding my standards of evidence, I already answered that question. I am beginning to wonder why I even bother composing responses to your queries.

    And now a question of my own.

    I noticed you have been remarkably silent about Mary Kay's generous donation to needy people for the Holiday Gift Drive.

    What are your thoughts? I have asked anyone posting on PT that does not agree with PT to stand up and be counted. Are you agreeing with them by omission?

  10. David, you said

    "So by all appearances you are probably one of the most intelligent people visiting this site."

    Excuuuusse me? what??

    Better start making up for that one liner to the rest of us..I think the rest of us are intelligent enough to understand when enough is enough - (lol)

  11. mk4me,

    1. operative word - appearances

    2. "one of the"

    3. did you miss the "brick wall" part?

    I don't play favorites here. If I see a particularly intelligent comment, or a well laid out explanation, I try to point it out.

    For all intents and purposes, I was pointing out that Blessed has at least an appearance of intelligence, but on the other hand, he seem almost incapable of any sort of reading comprehension.

    Thus my confusion.

    I am/was quite confident that it is/was more of him ignoring me, but lately I have really started to wonder.

    Anyway, in way of "starting to make it up to you", you are the epitome of intelligence.


  12. too funny, David - was just pulling your leg, ya know :) ..

  13. Blessed is one of the most obnoxious people on the planet. That condescending patronizing tone just makes my skin crawl. And then he has the audacity to criticize you (and me) for not allowing his comments. What a moron.

    I think I told you I had to ban him, right?

    Don't feel badly for feeling badly about him.

    Blessed, maybe it's time you looked in the mirror. Your comments are being deleted on more sites now than just mine.

  14. speaking the real truthDecember 18, 2007 at 11:19 AM


    I had asked on another post about your wife and if she knows that you post on all of these sites.

    Does anyone know the answer to this or would Blessed let us know.

    Just curious.

  15. Me,

    I so regret someone with whom I’ve not even had the chance to shake hands, someone I’ve never met, believes I am “ of the most obnoxious people on the planet.” Please know there is no sarcasm intended here, no attempt to be condescending. There’s a part of me that would love to meet you, to have the chance to sit down, talk and (if nothing else) convey I’m not such a bad person. I believe your opinion of me, at least in part, is due to some projection issues.

    Dave (Jon, whatever),

    Me’s note presents a useful segue. I believe I’d much rather post on her site, the Myst, or other clearly pro MK sites and have my note immediately deleted (never even show up), than post here and risk enabling a farce. Ya see, “Me,” the Myst, and others clearly present themselves as being pro Mary Kay Cosmetics. None of them publish their sites under the guise of offering some bastion of neutral objectivity. You do. But your neutral objectivity is dispensed arbitrarily. I will no longer contribute posts to such a misleading environment.

    If my deleted notes are undeleted and appear on your site I may well continue to post. Conversely, if you delete all unsubstantiated pro MK claims, I may continue to post. Otherwise, I’ll no longer post here. Now how quickly can you yell, “GOOD RIDDANCE”! My decision may be a very special early Christmas gift for you.

    As this may be (and likely is) my last post on your site, I want to mentions my admiration for your tastes. I enjoy your photography site, great stuff! I appreciate anyone who has a love for animals. Your writings about your faith are inspiring. And most of all, I tip my hat to anyone who is so abundantly an advocate for their spouse. Our differences about the “opportunity” aside, you seem like a wonderful person.

    I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas.


  16. Oh well,

    I wanted Blessed to stick around and address some of the questions that were asked of him

    But he had a knack for ignoring questions that would prove him wrong.

    Blessed, Judi is not promk, but she post here and its all good.

    So you cant say that this is not a blog that allows all sides

    Anyway, take care

  17. Blessed, don't leave me alone here!!! They might get me to re sign up!! LOL

  18. speaking the real truthDecember 18, 2007 at 4:35 PM

    Judi, will you re-sign in my unit when we convince you that MK is not an evil empire? HAHAHAHAHA! Just kidding of course, because you should sign with your current consultant when and if the time ever comes for you to come back.

    Blessed, you've ignored my question, not sure why.

  19. speaking the real truthDecember 18, 2007 at 4:40 PM

    what is up with the David/Jon comment from Blessed?

    I have seen Blessed's postings elsewhere and can see where "Me" gets her opinion of him.

    Blessed, maybe you are a great guy, but it doesn't come through in the posts that I've seen from you. You declare that we are all very stubborn in our opinions, but you are the same. As for those unsubstantiated claims that you say "David" is posting, how can it be better to here it from consultants and directors who are living the MK life? We tell you what we do, in detail. Do we need to provide proof? If so, provide your records of your wife's MK experience.

    As for this site being biased, HELLO, "David's" wife is a consultant. Don't expect him to be bashing MK. They are happy with it. I think that what he has enabled here is a reasonable conversation of the pros and cons amongst people who would rather fix the wrong things than destroy the company. I think it boils down to perspective.

  20. judi, we promise not to make you sign up if you stick around!!

    blessed, I truly don't understand (I am not being mean or sarcastic)
    but you feel very comfortable posting on PT knowing they allow absolutely no Posetive comments and yet proclaim it is the TRUTH about MK, so why is it when their is negative and posetive on this site, you refuse. Yes, some of your posts may have been deleted but if they are like any of the other posts from you I have read on other sites, somehow and I understand that there is no tone or facial expressions in emails but you manage to put a very condescending tone and a "high and mighty" quality to all of your emails. Maybe you don't mean to come across that way but believe me, for me and many others you do. It is highly insulting. If you notice Judi simply says how she feels, she expresses what she personally experienced. She doesn't attack. There is a difference. I believe if you were more respectful and didn't use off the wall analogies, you would be an asset in keeping the "playing field level". So ...

  21. Tone it down, Blessed. I can't be left alone here!!

  22. judi, May I ask please, do you feel blessed is a tad out of line some of the time, I do not mean to put you on the spot, but you are not pro-mk and I am just curious if it is just me because of my bias or if it is his "tone". Thanks!

  23. I think if you are playing in someone's sandbox you need to play by their rules. This is David's sandbox.

    I have not gotten the impression that Blessed is obnoxious. But that is probably because I agree with him most of the time. I was lied to and mislead so much while in MK that it is VERY hard for me to believe that some are actually making money. Especially when the ones saying they are making money also have other jobs. Why? If MK is such a good money maker, why do another job?

    I also think that if you are having a hard time getting your point across (like Blessed) you tend to just say the same thing louder. And louder. Maybe that is what Blessed is doing. It sounds like his wife's experience was similiar to mine. He probably doesn't believe you all are doing well financially. He probably thinks you all are keeping up appearances by overstating how things are going. My director ALWAYS said things were going well. Then I overheard her fighting with her husband about the amount of co pays she was making on her car. She taught us to always say our business was doing GREAT. Always be positive. NEVER let anyone know that you weren't selling. People will want to do business with a winner. Don't be a lazy loser. Blessed's experience was probably so bad that he can't see that there are some doing good.

  24. Judi, Mary Kay (or any direct sales venture) is not designed to replace another job. You seem to think the purpose of MK is to quit another job. I assure you, it isn't. Some make that their goal. Some are able to be successful enough to not need two jobs. Guess what? The economy sucks. If I have a full time job, why bother with Mary Kay? Doesn't it go both ways? If I weren't selling MK, our financial situation would be a lot worse since my husband lost his job and now has a new job paying significantly less than the other one was. Also, not everyone wants to be a director. I don't understand why you have the impression that everyone joins MK to quit another job. I'll admit, I don't like my day job, but it would be stupid to quit right now. The question you pose is like saying to someone who works full time and takes a second part time job "why are you still working full time?" For me, MK is my second part time job. It helps pay the bills. I've been contemplating taking it to the next level, but I would never quit my day job until I've at least matched its income with MK. Even if that never happens, I would still continue MK because it brings in extra cash. I'm making money off of my sales. I don't need a team to make money.

  25. Shay the Starfleet CommanderDecember 19, 2007 at 6:51 AM

    Judi -

    When I was in years ago, I did not have a Director that pressured me for inventory or anything negative. She was great and was fine about the fact that I was only in it for personal use and maybe a few sales here and there.

    I did do one event while I was a rep. It was a church bazaar, and I put out a fishbowl and had a drawing. I got 63 names in 2 hours, but since I wasn't looking to do MK full time (or even close), I gave most of those names to my Director. I kept a few of the ones I knew personally.

    Some people only want to make a few hundred dollars a month. I am a stay at home mom. I homeschool, too. If I could make enough in MK to pay for books for the kids and some extra, I would consider that success for me. Someone else would be disappointed with that, because they want to make six figures.

    Everyone is different, and one person's success is another person's failure. LOL

    Best of luck to you.


  26. Shay the Starfleet CommanderDecember 19, 2007 at 7:05 AM

    Judi -

    I have noticed one thing. Please don't take this the wrong way, because it is not meant to be mean.

    You assume a lot about other people's situations, such as your Director must not be making six figures because her house is the same size as yours and you don't make six figures. Or that you can't be making money in MK if you still work a full time job.

    I rent a small 3BR house. My husband is trying to get a new job, which would mean a big raise (could use some prayers on that, BTW, ladies! LOL). If he gets it, we won't run out and buy a bigger house. We would stay where we are and live on what we do know, and then put the extra in the bank.

    However, others might WANT to run out and get a bigger house right away, in the same situation.

    Neither position is wrong. They are just different.

    Same thing with the job. Someone may start MK so they can quit their job. Great! Those people might quit as soon as they are making enough to quit, even if it means cutting some expenses in order to do so.

    Others may love their jobs and not quit even long after they could afford to.

    Looking at the two, you would think they are doing the same amount, financially, but that is not the case.

    Outward appearances can be misleading. Don't worry so much about what others are doing. You can never possibly know all of the different nuances in their lives that make their situation different from everyone else.

    I really, really hope you give MK another try.


  27. The reason I talk about quitting jobs and doing MK full time is because pro MKers all have such positive things to say about MK. They say how wonderful their business is going. They only have inventory that they actually sell. Not much is sitting on the shelves. If it is so wonderful, why hasn't it replaced the other job? If you weren't working at that job couldn't you put more time to MK and make more money? Then you wouldn't have to have 2 jobs. This is what I don't understand. If you are truly making money that is worth the time you put in, wouldn't you be better off devoting more time to that endeavor.

    And as for my Director and her finances, I got to her house one day - the house keeper let me in - and my director did not know I was there. I over heard her fighting with her husband over the co pays she had been making on her car and the fact that her business was losing money. That's how I know about her finances. Believe me, she would have never told me that.

    And if you can make money by selling only, not having to recuit, then you dont' have to be a director. You can just sell. I don't think being a director is wonderful. I never aspired to that. I wanted to make my $300 per week after business expenses and taxes. I never did it for more 3 weeks in a row. It was not consistant. And I know there are other jobs that the income is not consistant. But I was lead to believe that MK would be. Even after questioning it and saying the if it's too good to be true it probably is. My director said oh, no it's not. That's the beauty of MK.

    To recap, if MK is so good and you CAN make money with it, why keep your other job? Why not do it full time? Devote more time to the money making job and quit the other. Especially if you have kids. Wouldn't it be better to only have 1 job? I am not being ugly. I truly want to understand.

  28. Judi,

    I don't have much time, so I will try to make this brief. Hopefully I can write a full post about it soon because it is a very good question.

    Simply put; most sales situations require a building process. You will not be hugely successful overnight. That is why you should always avoid "get rich quick" schemes. They almost inevitably will destroy you.

    Mary Kay was never meant to be a get rich quick scheme. Some people (your director from the sounds of it) have *tried* to twist it into that. If you look closely at some on PT, you will see that many of them either tried to do that themselves, or were led to believe that was the case.

    Do not be confused by people that tried to "get rich quick" for many years! The fact they were doing the wrong thing over and over again, expecting different results, does not mean that they were not trying to "get rich quick".

    While some people CAN start with no job, or quit their current job, it is generally not recommended. The ideal way to build a client base is one customer at a time, and very patiently. You have to demonstrate yourself to be consistent to your clients so that they know they can rely on you when they need you.

    There are plenty of stories of women that encountered circumstances in life that necessitated them making an "instant" income to survive. If you look at the hours they put in to survive, you and I would probably pass out from exhaustion just thinking about it! That is not a typical persons ideal!

    Most people would prefer to add a little here and a little there until they have something much bigger.


    If you can build this way, why drop the other income?

    Month 1 - $4,000 from job, $100 from MK

    Month 12 - $4,000 from job, $600 from MK

    Month 48 - $4,000 from job, $3,000 from MK

    I am not saying this WILL happen or that getting to $3,000 will not require more effort than getting $100, but if that was what you were finding, why would you quit the $4,000/month job?

    When you come to the place that you are making the same amount monthly that you make at your job, would you rather (in this illustration) make $4,000/month OR $8,000/month?

    I would choose the bigger number. Especially if it was not requiring a lot of effort!

    More on that later, got to get to work.

  29. Well, all I can do in response to your questions, Judi, is repeat what I said before: not everyone wants to become a director and not everyone wants to hold 2-3 appointments every week. Some people don't love sales. Sales is an inconsistant profession. Some people may like it on the side because it affords them a few extra hundred dollars each month, but don't want to pursue it as a full time job. Every individual person has his/her own reason for doing what they do and that is there prerogative. They don't have to justify it to anyone.
    And Judi, I would love to have one job that pays all of my bills, but like I said, the economy really sucks and I need my full time job and my extra MK sales. Even if I become a director in this coming year (and I plan to up my activity in January), I probably won't quit the full time job until I exceed the income with MK. Everyone is different. You can't possibly lump everyone into the category "I want to quit my day job."
    If I could consistently sell $1000+/week and profit $500+ every week, you bet I'd quit my job! But until I hone that skill, I will stay put. ;) The extra $200-$300/month is nice.

  30. speaking the real truthDecember 19, 2007 at 10:52 AM


    I did work my way out of another job, and that was my plan since early in my MK business. I waited until I had been a director for a little while and gotten firm in my footing in that position, and during that time I also got married, so I was now covered on my husband's insurance.

    Everyone's situation is different. My path is NOT for everyone. Some women just want some extra income and feel the need to have 2 "jobs". Some just like being a part of Mary Kay, and others are not willing to do what it takes consistently to work their MK business as their full time job. Some still need the benefits package that a job working for someone else can provide. And some do not have the confidence for our type of business to be their sole income.

    I do think that it would be scary to work this as a full time career if you were a single mother with no other income or benefits unless you were at least a consistent Circle of Achievement or above director. You would have to be great with your money, and put back during the great months, in preparation for the off months, and would have to earn enough to insure yourself.

    With that said, the majority of those in Mary Kay do not work the business as their "full time" or only job.

    I still feel passionately though that having 2 parents working outside the home is not the best for the children, but it has become a way of life in America.

    Yes, I could go back to school and probably get a really good job out there in corp. America. (I'm pretty smart and a hard worker). I would probably make pretty good money and have benefits. BUT, I do not want that.

    I do not wish to return to school at my age. It would be too large of a sacrifice for my and my family.

    I do not wish to work 40 hours per week outside of my home.

    I do not wish to be at a job at 8am.

    I do not wish to have a boss.

    I like to set my own vacation time.

    Plus, I LOVE my Mary Kay business. It's fun and I just like it. I like most everything about it. I like helping women look and feel good. I like the recognition, the dressing up, the onstage appearances, the prizes, the friends, the money, the personal growth, all of it. Really.

    I just cannot imagine a better setup for me. Even if my hubby made more money, I'd continue my business.

  31. No.. you are not being ugly Judi, but as always you are being closed minded. You are looking at things from your point of view only and from your value system and based on what you would probably do. You are looking for things to be black and white, but they are not and never will be.

    Afterall, isnt the same true of you? You are clearly antiMK but many of us have asked why you still hang around. It would seem that if you are antimk then you should quit. Black and White, cut and dry. But the answer is not black and white, there are gray areas. Gray areas of liking the product, wanting to get discounts, considering rejoining for the $20 bucks. There are other things to consider..right? Just as there are other things to consider to many of the questions you posed as well.

    You say
    "if MK is so good and you CAN make money with it, why keep your other job? Why not do it full time? Devote more time to the money making job and quit the other. Especially if you have kids. Wouldn't it be better to only have 1 job?"

    The purpose of having another job is not always to replace the first one. Thousands of women have more than one job. One full time and one part time for extra money or to just make ends meet. Why should Mary Kay be any different? Would you ask this same question of someone who held an office job from 8-5 and on the weekends worked part time at a retail outlet? Would the fact that they held on to the first job mean that they were not making any money from the second? Of course not. They may not expect to make more or as much from the second job as they do from the first but money is made nonetheless or they would not get up and go each weekend.

    Each job fullfils a purpose. The first one may pay the majority of the bills and provide the benefits. The second one may be for savings, or to pay for a certain item or expense that the first one cant cover etc. The reasons are endless.

    When you ask "why keep your other job if MK is so good", its as if you are implying that holding on to another job means that one realizes that you cant make money in MK. This is just not true.
    Two jobs are often just that..two jobs, not one trying to compete or replace the other. For instance nowadays there are two income households when there used to be only one. These days both parents almost have to work, both incomes have a purpose.

    You say that your current business endeavor nets you about $200 per week. Is it enough to live off of soely or is it extra money for your household? If you were to put more hours in, would you make more money? Does it have the potential to replace your husbands income?How would you feel if I used your own logic and said something like "If your current business endeavor is so good and you CAN make money at it, why not have your husband just quit his job...why not do it full time.."

    Now of course you would not do this because you probably need the money from BOTH sources. Just as many of us need the money from both of our jobs, the mk and the full time one. Keeping one is not necessarily a reflection of the "potential" of the other. It would be WRONG of me to judge your business endeavor just because you are not supporting your family soely from it, and your husband still works, just as it is wrong for you to inply that our MK businesses are not making us any money just because many of us still have full time jobs. There are women who ARE making money in MK, but just because they have not quit their other jobs to do MK full time, that does not mean that their MK is not making a financial difference for them in the way THEY need it to. Your value system and beliefs about why a woman would have to keep two jobs if she has kids may be different than someone elses. Once again, everything is not black and white or cut and dry. There are many things to consider in between.

    However, with that being said, there are those, even if you dont believe it, who are making their whole living from MK.
    And just about everyone I know who does MK, does it along side another full time job. Those that have quit other jobs to do this business full time, do so AFTER their business has matched or replaced their current income, which usually happens at the director level.

    The other thing I want to say is that I am not trying to convice you to sign back up for this business, but if you do, you should forget about the things that your director told you. I dont care how successful she may be in this business. She is NOT one that I would follow as far as knowing how to sustain this business.

    It becomes painfully clear through your comments that your were very misinformed and misguided about how to work a MaryKay business. Its no wonder you had a bad experience. You have the WRONG idea about many things in reference to this business, as evidenced by the things you say in your comments. There are so many concepts that were either given to you out of the correct context or maybe you recieved them in a way that allowed for the misunderstandings. I say this because communication is a two way street. But I think that I and many of us can safely say that your were given bum deal. That plus the fact that MK just was not a good fit for your life.

  32. Of course I am looking at MK from my point of view. The only reason I would do it is for me. I don't think I am being closed minded at all. I asked a question and it has been answered.

    I did not start into this business to support myself or to pay bills. I wanted to make extra money to pay for our 2 yearly vacations. I was never naive enough to believe that you could actually live off this income. But with so many here saying how well their businesses were doing I had to ask exactly what that meant. And I got my answer.

    And I did not imply that your MK business was not making you any money. I think the comments state clearly exactly how much money is being made. I am trying to understand WHY someone would pursue this business versus another one. If you need to make a little extra money, why this business? There are easier ways to make money. And quicker ways. If you are doing MK for reasons other than money, what sets MK apart from another job?

    I am merely asking why. I have done MK, I have done other work. I choose not to do MK anymore. I would like to know why some of you continue to do it, even though you admit that money must not the reason, since it seems to take a while to build up your business where it makes money.

    I do not want to come across like anyone needs to defend themselves. I merely am curious.

  33. Hi all--I read Judi's question and skimmed the answers others gave. I wanted to jump in with an answer so if I repeat, I apologize. I'm at work and didn't take the time to read all the answers.

    Judi, I have been associated with MK off and on (mostly on) for 20 years this past July. I have done it full time, part time, almost no time and everything in between. This is my second time to be in it and I just had my fifth anniversary. I work a full time job for BENEFITS. I was in a bad car wreck years ago and still suffer repurcussions from it and I have other health issues as well (getting old can be a real drag sometimes) so for me to take a policy on myself would be financial disaster plus I would probably not be covered on pre-existing conditions. Health insurance is vital to me right now and I have to work a job to keep it.

    That said, I also keep my "day gig" because I love what I do. I am a person of varied interests and law is one of them so I keep my job here. Sure, there are days when I wish I could do MK full time, but if I stop and think about not doing what I am doing full-time I know I would really miss it.

    I also have some debt related to the car wreck, health problems, etc. that I need to get out of and working full time and doing Mary Kay helps me do that too.

    I don't know what your director's story is, but I do know that just as all directors are individuals, so are their units. The director on my right could have a unit full of superstars and never have to worry about production. More than likely she is a good teacher and taught them how to book, sell, and recruit. The director on my left could have a floundering unit, probably containing some "personal use" consultants and she is worried about production all the time. She did not finish DIQ strong and won't until she gets rid of the attitude and starts working. She needs to teach her unit how to book, sell and recruit.

    Everyone's story is different and individual. I have a lot of customers who have been with me for years. The girl across the street may have three customers but loves the company because of the friends she has made or because the weekly meeting gets her out of the house and away from her abusive husband. Who knows? Who cares really?

    Just as a full time job fulfills different needs for different people, Mary Kay does too. The opportunity is there to make a lot of money, but if that is not your motivation or reason, you will either get something else out of it or you will get out. The opportunity is there for ANYTHING to happen, but different people get a different "anything."


  34. Why MK and not another job? I have lots of reasons:

    1. MK vs. Retail: MK allows me to work when I feel like it. A second job in retail means I have to answer to them. Since I work 8-5 and live 30 miles away from my day job, it would be very difficult to fit a second job in retail into my schedule. I'd rarely be home at all and my husband would miss me. With MK I can work whenever and wherever I want to. I get orders when I'm not always expecting it--pleasant surprise! I can sit at home and send and email or make a phone call and get a sale.

    2. MK vs. Another Direct Sales Company: MK is pretty low maintenance compared to say, Longaberger or Home and Garden Party or Partylite. Have you ever been to one of those parties? Have you ever noticed the large apparatus those reps have to truck with them to each appointment? NO THANKS! :) My friend tried to sign me up for Partylite. When she was telling me all this "free" starter kit stuff I could get, I frankly didn't want most of it. And where would I put it? My house is small. My MK stuff fits easily into a closet. It's small stuff and easy to store. Also, a couple totes is a lot easier to travel with than candle stands--some of which look kind of heavy. I'll buy Partylite candles, but someone else can sell it. ;)

    3. MK is unconventional: Selling MK and making money takes skill. It doesn't take much skill to sit and run a register. Nor does it take much skill to answer phone calls. Conventional jobs are mundane to me. Someone else might love working retail or running register, but it's not for me.

    4. MK has a friendly atmosphere: I love being around my director and my MK friends. It is refreshing to get away from the same ol' same ol'. I'm usually uplifted when I attend my weekly meetings--especially after a bad day at work.

    5. MK vs. Waitressing: PUH-LEAZZZE! I vowed long ago I'd never work in the food industry. 'Nuff said!

    That's the tip of the iceberg. ;)

  35. Here comes another surprise. I encourage new consultants NOT to quit their jobs or if they want to change something go parttime, I have also suggested to a few consultants to consider getting something parttime just a few hours a week to help them get out of the house and meeting people.

    I have watched consultants that were working fulltime and doing MK partime and doing quite well with the MK for the time they had to give to it. A few decided that they were doing well enough to quit and "do" MK fulltime. Well guess what happened, oh, they did have more time now to pursue MK but they lost a schedule. They also weren't getting out of the house like they were when they worked and I noticed they seemed to start withdrawing, not being as outgoing as they had been. Without the interaction with others, they seemed to be loosing self confidence. It seems weird but with more time to do MK, they actually did less. Does this make some sense??

    And it has been mentioned several times before but one of the biggest reasons a consultant would stay with another job is for medical insurance.

    I didn't quit my profession until I had been a director for 1/2 a year. Why?? Because I was afraid. I knew if I went in to my job and was having a "lazy" week at work, I was salaried and I would get so much on pay day. With the Mary Kay, I knew it was up to me, if I didn't work, chances were I wouldn't make what I need. I didn't know if I would be disciplined enough with myself. Plain and simpe, I had to depend on myself. It was tough but for 1/2 year I did both. When I finally believed enough in myself, then I gave my notice. I have never regretted the decision. I would not have quit to do Mary Kay fulltime if I had not been a director. I have always sold well and that does bring in good money, my sales average $3000/month even as a director. But if you add on director commission, unit bonuses, team commission, recruiting bonuses, cash compensation on the car and that is some pretty good money.

    And like most pro mkers, besides the financial side of MK, it is the "paychecks of the heart" that mean more to me than the money. If my husband made enough so working for me was an option, I would still be doing MK. I just love everything about it (with the exception of the directors doing it the wrong way).

  36. Blessed,

    Please don't think that you can offer me an ultimatum on this site.

    If you would like to post comments you are more than welcome.

    If you no longer wish to comment, that is your prerogative.

    While I appreciate and welcome views that are contrary to mine and would relish more of them, I will not beg or change my values in order to obtain them.

    I certainly don't wish you good riddance, and I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas as well.

    It is unfortunate that you can't seem to comprehend the difference between allowing all points of view and allowing anyone to say anything they want.

    You are still welcome to post here.

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