Wednesday, December 19, 2007


Aristotle seemed to think that, "One cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time."

I tend to agree.

Intrigued? Laurence R. Horn continues the thought just a bit;

Those who stubbornly demand a proof of the law of non-contradiction (LNC) (also called the law of contradiction) simply “lack education”: since “a demonstration of everything is impossible”, resulting in infinite regress, at least some principles must be taken as primitive axiomata rather than derived from other propositions—and what principle more merits this status than LNC? (1006a6-12). In first philosophy, as in mathematics, an axiom is both indemonstrable and indispensable; without LNC, “a is F” and “a is not F” are indistinguishable and no argumentation is possible. While Sophists and “even many physicists” may claim that it is possible for the same thing to be and not to be at the same time and in the same respect, such a position self-destructs “if only our opponent says something”, since as soon as he opens his mouth to make an assertion, any assertion, he must accept LNC. But what if he does not open his mouth? Against such an individual “it is ridiculous to seek an argument” for he is no more than a vegetable (1006a1-15).

Read more here if you are interested.

The point of this post though is to examine the less philosophical contradictions that we find on Pink Truth.

Speaking the real truth has requested a post about the contradictions on Pink Truth.

STRT - you got it.

She gets the ball rolling with;

1) Anti-MKers claim that the market is saturated. They also claim that there really are no end customers. HUH? How can both be true when you sell a consumable product and most adults use some form of something that we sell.

2) Prizes from directors. Anti-MKers claim that the prizes are cheap. But, they also claim that they spent a lot on prizes and other expenses when they were directors. Hmmm. If directors only give out cheap trinkets for prizes, how does that get so expensive? Especially if no one in their units is doing anything as anti-MKers claim.

3) Anti-MKers include all sorts of expenses in the math about how much we earn, including taxes, housekeepers, baby sitters, training, clothing, etc. However, they make no deductions for these types of expenses when they state the amount made by those in other businesses. That's apples and oranges, not apples to apples.

4) LISTENING TO YOUR DIRECTOR. Many of those who have left MK claim to have listened to their director about inventory, etc. I wonder if they also listened to their director about holding appointments and selling products. Yes, I recommend inventory if you can afford it, want it, and plan to sell it, but I also recommend that you get yourself some appointments booked right away and sell the stuff. It's not fair to blame your director if you took her advice about one and not the other. She gave the advice based on you doing both.

Have you seen some contradictions?

On Pink Truth?

In Mary Kay?

On my site?

After all, "One cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time."


  1. Add this one:

    PT says NOONE can make money in Mary Kay (especially not honestly) if so then why are the ones on PT staying in Mary Kay to collect the checks they feel are owed to them. If you can't make money what are they collecting??

    Also if you are willing to speak out against this evil company that destroys so many lives but continue to sell its products and line your pockets are you not yourself condoning the behavior.

    I love shows show like CSI and Law and Order. You know you don't have to have had actually committed the murder to be tried for accessory to murder. So that would make them as bad if not worse then they Company they are bashing and it makes them worse then the directors they accuse of "being in the fog" because they should know better because they are no longer brainwashed.

  2. This one I loved, wish I had copied it because I am sure it is gone now but one of the poster went was complaining along with everyone else about loosing money in MK. Her complaint was ....
    (warning if drinking please swallow before reading)

    .... her husband wanted her to quit MK because she was making too much money and it made them get a smaller tax return! She was using this to help others back up the fact that you can not make money in MK. For the non accounting types she made enough to cause them to have to pay taxes on the amount she made because they moved into a higher tax bracket, and enough it ticked her husband off, which meant she must have made a good deal. Coming from 15 years as a Corp. Accountant and Business Financial Analyst, you can imagine how funny I found this "evidence"!

  3. ***gulp,***, hiss, laughing my a**
    off, and trying to contain myself!!
    She made too much money? Well mk4me what will they think of next.

  4. Compose yourself - colleen (jk)
    Glad you found it as entertaining as I did!

  5. Oh, I am loving this topic:

    Topic - making a consultant order $600, -$600, now I dont' know about everyone else but personally I think $600 is a great way to start because of the bonuses, if you sell the bonuses at msrp you would be making 100% on your sale. The two bonuses sold would reimburse you for your starter kit, your website, your extra samples, your business cards, and any other miscellaneous expenses you may have getting started out. At that point you would have NO out of pocket expenses because the inventory is an asset and the sheer profit of the bonuses would pay for your start up expenses.

    OOPS, got off topic... I thought every director frontloaded and brought all consultants in at $1800 - $3600. Personally I don't think I would quite classify $600 as frontloading.

    And, it is really sad because they must have read had to dig for this example, it is old.... look at the price of s/h! Our shipping as changed a couple of times since that figure!

  6. I am not pro PT. Let me get that out of the way.

    I think when PT says no one can make money they mean not much money. I made money. But it wasn't enough to warrant the time I spent making it.

    And as for the front loading. Didn't MKC encourage the $600 initial order recently? I seem to remember reading somewhere that $600 was specifically mentioned. It might have been from a director on PT?? Whereas before, it was up to the director to tell the consultants all the levels and help her pick one. I think $600 is a great start. You can always order more if you sell a bunch at your first booking and get it in less than a week. My lovely director said anything less than $3000 was not worth it. You were not serious about your business if you did less than that. Which made no sense to me. Can I only order once a quarter? Surely when I sell something I can restock it. So I don't see any reason to come in at those high amounts.

    And as for why they stay in it if they do not like the company. Maybe they are like some of you here and NEED that extra money a week, even if it's not alot.

  7. I'm sure the people there do NEED the extra money, but why continue if they so vehemently despise MK? Perhaps they don't hate it as much as they would like it to appear...

    In itself, that is a conradiction. In an earlier thread I listed all my reasons why I choose MK and not something else. It basically outlines why I LIKE MK so much. Well, if they hate it so much, what are their reasons to stay? Just curious. I stay at my day job for the benefits and it's my job. I don't love it and I'll actively search for something new. It's not as easy to find another full time job to replace the full time income, but if someone is working MK part time, not making much money, they could probably make more in retail. Or, if they want a home-based business, there are other companies to choose from.

    I suspect maybe, just maybe they don't hate MK as much as they proclaim, but that's just speculation on my part.

    The $600 order is the lowest level "package" MK offers to new consultants. If someone wants to order more than $200, but not wanting to place a star order, the $600 option is nice because you still get some freebies. There are no freebies for a $200 order. Also, a consultant who orders a minimum of $600 w/s in one quarter (that's over 3 months--cumulatively) is considered "Qualified." Qualified consultants are used to measure team building. That is how the Court of Sharing is awarded by how many Qualified team members a recruiter adds to her team. Note: they don't have to place the $600 all at once. They can order $200/mo each month and still be Qualified. But anyway, that may be the information you saw, Judi. I agree that $600 is a very good start. It's enough to have something on hand for orders, and not so much that it's overwhelming if it doesn't sell right away.

  8. I am going to come in with a $600 order. I want to do more than just be personal use, and I want to order stuff for myself and my family. $600 is a great starting point for me because I can take orders from my family and have most of that $600 order paid for. The bonus items I can either sell or give to my Mom. :o)

    $600 is a great start for me because $200 is not enough! LOL I want items for my personal stock and also for selling.

    As was also mentioned, $600 is not a huge amount, either. You can sell that much in a reasonable amount of time.

  9. I agree with shadeofpink -

    They may need the money (although I thought no one made money in Mk! Bwahahahahahahahahahaha), but why take money from a company that is (supposedly) so evil? It's like being in Enron before it collapsed and knowing it was doing the wrong thing - why would you stay??

    And why stay on PT is you are a consultant? That is the thing that really bugged me. If you are a consultant, you are either making money or simply like the products. Either is fine. But why stay on a site like PT where not a single positive thing is allowed about MK?

    I wish I had been on the site long enough (and bothered to read more closely - LOL) and knew which ones were staying in MK for the check. That way, when TC posted how "no one makes money in MK," I could happily point out that X, Y, and Z had to be making money because they stayed in for the checks! So one or the other is a lie!

    Another thing: there were some people who were ABSOLUTELY PARANOID about being "found out" on PT. Um. So why stay? I am really confused by this. If MK is so evil, aren't you going to leave eventually? If not, why stay on a site that bashes MK? I am sure that reading that garbage day in and day out destroys your self-worth. Hearing all day and night about how evil the company you work with is evil....then staying in for the checks....kinds makes ya seem...scummy, doesn't it?

    I am glad I found the pro-MK blogs. I am also glad for Pink Lighthouse - at least they have some active, happy MK consultants on there! I wish I could find some other pro-MK boards.

  10. Judi I had a sense you were not pro PT!! I like the way you answer your questions and you are very civil. If you notice the pro MK boards are willing to give advice and discuss problems and concerns.
    I can understand the directors who still want to collect checks from the "evil pink empire", what I DONT understand is some of them said they didnt leave until they found PT!! If you are going to leave just go!! It is easier when you find people of like minds so I understand that but I couldnt stay with a company 10 or 15 years if I didnt make some money or more than enough to get by. There is no shame in picking up a pt job if you have to in order to sustain until your unit gets bigger. There is a top director who did that for a year while she was in school and when her checks were 4000.00 a month and above (her checks are 7000 a month to 13,000 easily) she quit and did MK full time and only MK

  11. speaking the real truthDecember 20, 2007 at 10:59 AM

    6) Being upset because you receive a chargeback and teaching consultants how to avoid paying them. If you think it is wrong to bring consultants in with inventory, why should you have a problem with consultants giving the commissions back on those orders.

    7) Character. Saying that no one in MK has character, yet they teach consultants how to sell products on Ebay and not get caught, even though the consultants have signed an agreement not to do so.

    8) For the directors on PT. How can you continue to collect your commission checks in good conscious? If this company is so bad, how can you accept profit from it? Also, you are not being a good director to your unit currently, so how do you justify getting the checks?

  12. Wow there are certainly a lot here.

    One for me is the free training thing.

    It is well known that one of their biggest complaints is that the "free training" isn't really free.

    BUT almost daily, we see post after post of advice from directors (that they tear apart) that I am at least fairly confident they did not pay for.

    I would love to hear, "this advice from director xxxxx cost us $yyyy



For Further Reading...

This Week On Pink Truth - Click Here
Pros and Cons of Mary Kay - Read or Contribute or Both!
First Post - Why I Started This Blog
The Article I Wrote For (here) (there)
If this is your first visit please leave a comment here. I would love to hear from you!
If you want to email me:
But you are probably better emailing mk4me: