Saturday, December 22, 2007

This Week On Pink Truth 12/22-29/07

You know what to do.

It looks like things have slowed down a bit over there for the holidays as well but... if you see something...and you want to say something....go ahead.


Nothing Follows


  1. Hey pinknight!
    I posted my "goodbye letter" on my blog~You can read more about how and why people get banned: for speaking out and asking questions.

    Happy Holidays!

  2. Aw, (((hugs))). Welcome here, anyway!

  3. speaking the real truthDecember 26, 2007 at 2:30 PM

    I almost started laughing when I read the commentary on the new lip colors on PT. It shows what little these people know about cosmetics.

    First of all, RICH COCOA is a color meant for bronze skin tones and to the best of my knowledge, the reviewer over there is not such.

    Next, You can tell by the conversation that most of these women do not understand about lip color. Usually, the more moist a color is, the less staying power it has and vice versa.

    And finally one poster talks of only wearing Sheer Blush. Interesting.

    I regularly have clients tell me how much they like MK lip colors. To be honest, before MK, I would have not paid $13 for a lip color, but I have learned that a lot of women see that as reasonable. I am glad that leadership resisted the opportunity to raise the price further.

  4. Yes, since Tracy has given her "review" of our lipstick, I'm sure all of us consultants will just not buy any of it! I can't stop laughing after having read that! She says, "Back to the drawing board" like everyone at corporate gives a rip what she thinks. Or us for that matter.

    Doesn't it strike you as odd that she would even care to try a new MK lipstick in the first place? And why couldn't the person who sent her the lipstick have submitted the review herself? Why be out $6.50 plus tax and postage by sending it to Tracy?

    I agree with STRT as well, about how much they (don't) know about lip colors. Why do they even care to talk about it?

    And why is she posting info about next quarter's products? We all know it and why do they want to?


  5. I saw that nonsense (review of the lip colors) what is funny is that you can tell most of them like the MK lip line. They were trying to figure out a way to dislike it.

  6. I can't say I care what TC thinks of MK lipstick. I don't know her so what she thinks about something would not influence my purchase.

    Today they are posting incomes of directors. These are the posts I take note of. Any comments from any of the directors who post here?

  7. One thing that really bugs me on the PT site is that there are so many assumptions made:

    "...from that, the sales directors must pay all of their expenses. So their actual income is much less."

    Um. How does she know this? This is assuming that Directors are not doing any personal sales at all (from the way I read this - correct me if I am wrong). Surely a Director has SOME customers hanging around, doesn't she?

    Oh no - I forgot - there are no retail customers in MK. (That was sarcasm, BTW)

    "But do you think that over 13,500 sales directors don’t want that and/or aren’t working hard enough? I don’t think so. I’d bet the majority of them DID want to make an executive income or at least a very solid income… which is why they became directors. And they’re not making that decent income."

    Again - who told TC how many wanted to make how much? Telepathic signals, maybe? Her psychic powers really impress me more each day.

    "The Grand Prix level directors are making about $20,000 per year in MK if they’re lucky.

    That most of the directors are making less than that. Is that an executive income? Is that even a full-time living?"

    First point: this does not include money from personal sales.

    Second point: In my neck of the woods, $20,000 a year is nothing to sneeze at. It is definitely a full time income. At 40 hours a week, that is $9.63 an hour. I will not pull a PT and assume how many hours Directors work, but just as an example:

    35 hours = $11 an hour
    30 hours = $12.84 an hour

    Third point: If you are doing something you love and making $20,000 a year doing it, heck yeah! I know lots of people who work full time jobs for $20,000 because they love what they do!


  8. In addition, now that TC has passed judgement on the lip color, I am sure that will signal the collapse of MKC as we know it.


    *wipes tears from eyes*

    Oh, that was a good one. *hehehehe*

  9. One more point.

    I have been on a job interview or two in my life. In all of them, the interviewer mentions being able to advance, pay raises, etc.

    Can you imagine if I demanded to see the tax returns of the top person in the company to "verify" the interviewers claims? Um. No. Or even to see the pay stubs of other employees? Um. No.

    And to think someone is going to volunteer their tax returns so she or anyone else can plaster them all over the Internet is just plain stupid. Period.

    Okay. I feel a tad better now. I will vent more later.

  10. You're right, Shay. :) Whenever I hear directors announce their highest monthly check, they always note that it does not include sales. That is just the commission check. If a director is truly working full circle, she is still selling the product herself. If she's a selling machine, should could be adding yet another couple thousand to her gross income each month.

    Another thing PT doesn't consider is the tax deductions these people might have. If the director is driving regularly to appointments and to make deliveries, she may be putting a lot of mileage on her car. That's a valuable write off, in my opinion.

    So, I second your, "whatever!"

  11. Another think you will never hear Tracy mention or any of her followers for that matter, is that TRACY IS SELF EMPLOYED HERSELF. SHE has to pay all her expenses out of whatever money she makes too. She also has to contribute to her own retirement account and pay for health insurance. She isn't married so all that is out of her pocket, along with everything else she talks about that is the directors' responsibility.

    And her little Sequence, Inc. company probably doesn't grant her the use of a company car....unless the money comes out of her pocket. Since Sequence is a corporation, it can pay for her to lease a car, but ultimately that money is out of her pocket.

    I haven't read the post about directors' incomes all the way through. But apparently most of those people have not been around long enough to remember when all commission checks over $3000 were published for directors. There got to be so many, that they had to change how they listed them or the Applause magazine would have weighed five pounds, so they chose to list the top 100. Before the change, however, you could see that there were MANY directors who were mid-range levels, which now would be $4-5000 a month. Nothing to sneeze at for commission only. The majority of directors that I know (and I know a lot of them) are great consultants, meaning they have a large customer base and continue to hold classes. That means more money.


  12. ME -

    Yep, that car is an added perk IN ADDITION TO the income. Again - nothing to sneeze at, IMHO.

    But TC will turn up her nose at anything with MK, so it doesn't matter.


  13. How can anyone say what a good or average MK income is. The lady making $20,000. Its possible that she had no income before MK. So to someone like that, $20,000 is great. It just depends. Most of the top directors will tell you that they did not sign up to make an executive income, but they signed up to make a few extra dollars a month on the side or to add a little to the family budget. They ended up going way beyond the extra money point. Even if it is not considered "executive" it is still substantial to them for their needs.

  14. TC needs to put up or shut up, IMHO.

    Let's see HER post her Schedule C or whatever and show the world how "successful" she is. Let's see HER income vs. expenses.

    After all, if she is "only" making $20,000 or so, she is failing, right? She is SUCH a professional, so she should be making the big bucks, right?


    Sorry I am in such a mood today.

  15. The deal with the showing of the schedule C is because some of us were told by our directors that our directors were making a whole lot more than they actually were. That's why we want to see proof. I am not going to show anyone MY returns and I dont' expect others to either unless they are telling me they are making six figures in MK. Then, the only way I will believe them is to see the proof.

    And the director's incomes ARE much less than their commission checks since no expenses are taken out. PTer's probably had the same experience I had with director's lying about income. And my director was not making much in personal sales since she did not have many SCC. I saw her date book. It was as empty as mine!

    So, when all you see are lies and deception and terrible business practices, it is hard to believe that there are those doing it right. That's why this site is so important. We can see that some are making it work, and doing it ethically.

    But from what some are saying here, they are making money. Not six figures by any means, but enough for them to keep at it.

  16. speaking the real truthDecember 27, 2007 at 5:03 PM


    A director's personal sales should cover most of her expenses. Therefore, the commission checks that you see may very well be what she actually puts into her family's budget. In addition, if she is meeting her car qualifications, she gains because she has no personal car note or lease.

    Asking for the Schedule C is really no different than asking to see anyone's tax return, because deductions and taxes affect everyone's spendable income. If someone tells me that they have a $60,000 per year job, I do not ask how many deductions they claim, nor do I ask what expenses they pay related to their work.

    Do you see the contradiction? Everyone who works has expenses relating to their work...gas, clothing, child care, lunch out, but in the regular working world, no one deducts that from their salary and claims that bottom line to be their income. And, everyone pays taxes. Should you add a car note to everyone else's income that does not have a company car?

    If you deduct every single expense from a MK person and compare that to the full paycheck of a regular job, that is NOT comparing apples to apples.

    I hope that you and others can see the flawed (and manipulative) math used in these scenarios.

    BTW, my personal retail sales credit for the year is running at a 100% increase so far, and it's not because I am stocking much product either. I have very little on my shelf!

  17. speaking the real truthDecember 27, 2007 at 5:04 PM

    Shay, you are cracking me up girl!

    I would just like to Tracy post how much profit she has earned off of the PT website. Don't you think her readers deserve that kind of disclosure?

  18. speaking the real truthDecember 27, 2007 at 5:07 PM

    Here is another thought. If I were not in Mary Kay do you think I would get to drive a brand new car every other year? NOT HARDLY!!!

    It is exciting to take your children to pick up a new car that Mommy has qualified for. Once I even picked it up and just pulled up to the pick up line at school in it. My husband gets really excited about the new cars as well.

    Some things are just fun, ya know? I didn't have that much fun at my last regular job, or for that matter, any of the regular jobs that I've held in the past.

  19. speaking the real truthDecember 27, 2007 at 5:10 PM

    I'm sorry, I just have to say the thought of a Caucasian girl with that Rich Cocoa on her lips~Oh my, Robert Jones would pass out. After all that they've said about us, I'd love to see a photo of that. Now that would be funny for the "Caption that Photo" segment.

  20. The commission check is gross income. That is what anyone reports as income. Anytime we apply for a loan or a credit card and it asks for annual income, it wants the gross income. And, those director's paychecks are not fake and they are not less. The net income at the end of the year after all the expenses and all the taxes are taken out will be less than the gross income. But isn't everybody's??? If someone grosses $60K that doesn't include cost of insurance, possible union dues, parking expenses, cost of fuel to get them to the job, or taxes. Sometimes I wonder if "they" know the difference b/w "gross income and net income.

    If a director is working full circle and is selling the products and her unit is making production, then she has more gross income not less. (I feel like a broken record)

    If a director tells me this is her reality, I can only believe her and work my business the way it is intended to be worked.

  21. This income thing is sooo old. Somewhere on David's site here I did a very fair breakdown of a Saturn level ($10,000/month production) = I used this because it is what I know best.
    (Maybe David can find it and pull it forward)

    It bears repeating but notice, TC doesn't show any sales, personal I sell an average of $3000/month so add another $1500 a month (or $18000/yr) and then I don't take the company car, I take the cash comp which is $500/month, so that is another $6000/yr. I also earned the $750 wellness bonus this year. Add all this up and it looks, way different than the figures that are posted there. Yes, I will have to deduct expenses, but I am very frugle and keep them low.

    It is amazing how she can leave so much out while claiming it is the truth.

    Oh, I LOVE the new lipsticks and I can't keep the mineral foundations on my shelf.

  22. STRT -

    I am as white as rice. I cannot IMAGINE wearing the Rich Cocoa. I would look like Elvira. LOL

    I also think the new car thing is cool! My kids would LOVE that! :D

    shadesofpink -

    I really don't think most PTers have any idea of how business/finances/life really works. Your comparison is right on.

  23. This was a comment in response to today's PT post ("Mayshe she needs...."):

    "This sounds good if women couldn't work outside the home. Newsflash to MKC - women are now doctors and lawyers and anything they want. They don't have to pimp other women to buy a car."

    Doctors and lawyers? And PTers think that MK DIRECTORS work a lot of hours?

    MK encourages debt? What about law/medical school?

    Not only that, but maybe there actually are women who don't want to work a ton of hours away from their kids.


  24. Whoops! typo - should read "Maybe she needs...."

  25. I am pretty sure it was meant that women today can work a good enough job to PAY for a car. We don't have to recruit to earn one. That car is not reason enough to do MK. Especially since it is not even your own.

    I emailed my director about re-signing. I have some friends/family, people I don't even know, who want to order and it has been over a year since my last order. She gave me her password to InTouch so I can re-sign myself. Can anyone give me info on how much a director has access to her consultant's InTouch? Can she tell what her consultants are ordering or returning? Like what products I am ordering?

  26. speaking the real truthDecember 28, 2007 at 5:42 PM

    Yes Judi, your director can see what products you order. By returning, I am not sure what you mean. If you mean through the Product Replacement Program, no she cannot, I think we can see what you receive in return though. Please remember to use this program for its intended purpose though, as using it otherwise hurts us all by the company imposing stricter guidelines to the program, which are a pain.

    Sure, being a lawyer or a doctor is probably great. But it takes great sacrifice to get there and long hours for most when you do get there. If that is the path that someone takes great. What I think is great nowadays is that WOMEN HAVE CHOICES, period! I have often thought about should I go back to school, etc., but for me, it's not worth it, and working 40-60 hours per week outside my home is not my desire.

    I met a lady at my son's school recently who is an attorney. She is looking to change careers! Guess what else, she also uses MK, and my MD uses some products from me as well. So much for the intelligent women not using MK.

    MK is not everyone's choice, just like being a lawyer, a doctor, or an engineer is not everyone's choice. I just question those who want to decisively say which is better. People have different circumstances and life events that determine the best choices for them. For my situation, MK is the BEST CHOICE.

  27. speaking the real truthDecember 28, 2007 at 5:50 PM

    OH MY GOSH! This article really shows how little the leader of PT really knows about women.

    A lot of women do need the income that MK can provide, from a little to a lot.

    A lot of women need recognition of any kind.

    Many of us like those little prizes, like that $100 Am/Ex card coming my way, or the cute T-shirt and watch that I received a previous quarter. I used my Pink Coleman Cooler to soak my Christmas ham, and I have my diamond earrings in my ears now.

    A lot of women do need more friends and a sisterhood to belong to. That's one of the things that I love about MK.

    How many of you think the leader of PT gets a lot of these same needs fulfilled by running that site? Recognition, income, a feeling of importance, admiration from others.

    AND, did you read that last part about unconditional love from PT? Since when. Hasn't she kicked out anyone who doesn't agree with her? How is that unconditional? There is very little unconditional love in the world. I think that God and parents are about the only ones who are completely unconditional.

  28. ME said But apparently most of those people have not been around long enough to remember when all commission checks over $3000 were published for directors. I remember when they put the 3000k and above and it got too big you are right!!! Judi you are thinking about resigning with MK!!
    I never thought I would see that you go girl!!

    I made 40,000 10 years ago for five years and I must tell you. Mathematician that I am (yeah right) I couldnt understand why women who were making 60-100k were leaving their jobs to become self employed to do MK or other businesses!!! When I did research it was always for the same reason,
    away from the family, more flxibility, they were a slave to the company, but the one that opened my eyes was "TAX DEDUCTIONS"

  29. (Tax deductions part 2)

    When people (with any sense) take a salary of 60-80k and divide what they are making per hour when you
    work 50-60 hours a week (do the math I hate it) you will find they are not making much more than those who are making 35-40k!! If a woman chooses to do MK and hits car production and is making a check of 3500-4000 per month plus sales and other bonuses, it works out to be the same or more and less hours. Dont get me wrong I know it takes a good year to get to this point but the potential is unlimited. For those who have husbands and get put on his benefit package its even better. I have to say that MK's car program is the best one in direct sales!! If a director has a check of 1500 or less I have always said there is no shame in working a part time job until her production is higher!!

  30. The whole thing about women can be doctors and lawyers so why sell makeup is this:

    Mary Kay Ash designed the company as an ALTERNATIVE to Corporate America. She was aware what women can do. Mary Kay herself was going to medical school at one time.

    The mission of MK isn't to belittle women and say, "well, you can't do anything else so sell makeup." NO! It's saying, "if you're feeling frustration in your current situation, this might be something that appeals to you."

  31. Judi, are you aware that you can rejoin Mary Kay under any unit even if you wish to use the second chance opportunity? I want to point this out to you because from following your story, I don't want you to feel that you are trapped to return to the same unit and have the same situation that you just got out of. We are all about full disclosure here.

    And... remember we are always here for your questions.

    Happy New Year all!

  32. I did resign last night. Not to sell. But I do offer my discount to everyone I know. For my time, everyone else pays the shipping charges and the taxes. And we all split the $20+ re-signing fee. So I don't make a dime on it. But I do love the skin care. I think it's wonderful. I would never have tried it at full price, though.

    Coming here to this site I realize that not everyone in MK is terrible. I have not proof of what you all say, but I have been doing so extra research and someone is doing something right. I don't hate the company. I don't even hate my director. I feel sorry for her. So I have no problem buying from the company.

    And, Speaking the Real Truth, I am only using the product return plan to do what the company says I can. If I am not happy with a product - for ANY reason - I return it for something I like. I tell everyone about this. It makes me feel better about being frontloaded in the beginning. Why should I get stuck with anything?

  33. Judi,

    I think that is great. And you know I signed up for personal use however I (just my opinion) decided to sell it to customers. Like I said I have only held two skin care classes. I am going to however do more this year. It is a personal choice.

    I know that your director might not have been honest with you and that is on her and she will have to answer for that. I think it is great for you to get it for family and friends. Just remember to charge the tax on the retail price so that you don't eat any of that. That is what I do for my sisters. When I first got into MK I made them pay part of the shipping to however since I am selling it now I don't make them pay that. I wish you the best of luck.

    WE are not all bad MK ladies. I really try to do unto to others. The GOLDEN RULE.


  34. speaking the real truthDecember 29, 2007 at 8:26 AM

    Judi, that is what the Product Replacement Program is for, for us to back up the 100% satisfaction guarantee. We and our clients can return products that we've used for any reason. I return things myself.

    I was not accusing you of anything. I just know that some have mentioned using the program to adjust their inventory, returning brand new products through the program. It hurts everyone, because then MK gets more strict about the replacements.

    I hope that you have a good experience in MK this time. I am glad that seeing how others work on this site and through your other research has made a difference. That's important, because sometimes I wonder if this blogging thing matters, you are proof that it does.

    Best wishes to you, and if any of us can guide you in any way, please let us know!


    This week on PT, yawn,
    same old - now they are even doing reruns, guess the writers strike was effecting them.

    Anyway, I hope for the new year, they grow, and step away from whining about a company they stepped away from over a year ago. And perhaps, if they can't, seek professional help! I have seen real victime of abuse move on faster. non have lost loved ones, arms, legs, lives, etcc...
    moving on must be a choice. Wallowing in selfpity is also a choice. I truly want to wish all those in despair, see this as a new year and a perfect time to get up, dust themselves off and move forward on a more posetive note for the new year. Because all of us... well I know "Things are
    Going to be Great in 2008)

    HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL AND I had my last ciggie at 11:45. ugggg
    But I am going to do it!

  36. Judi, i can only say that I hope that you did not sign back up under the same recuiter/director.

    Hope this time around is better for you.

    The cool thing about MK is that you can work it into your life anyway that you need to, and this is evident in the fact that you signed up again just to meet your particular needs of offering your discount to other women in order to get them their products. If you actually do this, then you will have found success on your terms just as many others have.

    Good luck, I hope you find leadership that will cultivate your integrity and the natural "do unto others" spirit that you have.

  37. speaking the real truthJanuary 2, 2008 at 2:11 PM



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