Sunday, December 2, 2007

Pink Truth; the conversation (part IV)

Please read this first - Pink Truth; the conversation

Here is the third comment I received.

hadenoughmk said:

looking for real truth said: They are not being begged not to quit or ridiculed.

Ah, hahahahahahahahahahaaha!!!!

Sorry, don't know what Mary Kay world you live in...but,
I BEG to DIFFER!!! I was a Director for almost 8 years- I saw this many times over- then if you did quit- everyone was told you just "didn't work enough" or you "didn't want it enough", you weren't WILLING to work enough". And always- always- always shunned! From NSD down to the blind consultants following their "leaders/Directors" ! I have heard my old NSD say it word for word! So, maybe your wife is one of the rare and polite ones, but from the #1 NSD area I came from, IT AIN"T SO!!!

The " Ah, hahahahahahahahahahaaha!!!!" seemed like she was ridiculing ME. If I were a member in good standing (which I still contend that I should be) this would be ridiculing a member. Not that I mind, but standards should be the same across the board.

Here is my response. It was rather lengthy, so I posted it as two comments there. The break signifies where one comment ended and the other began.


I am sorry that this was your experience. I can only speak from what I have observed in my wife's unit.

I have seen people on her team and other peoples teams quit. Her director has even encouraged people that were growing frustrated to take a step back and evaluate whether or not Mary Kay is the best thing for her current situation.

I have met other directors that think the same way. The consensus (of those that operate this way) is that it is far better to treat people right and trust that when (and if) the time comes that Mary Kay is a match for them, they will feel comfortable coming back to them.

The question on this post linked to an email that offers advice on what to say to someone thinking about leaving Mary Kay. Some excerpts are:

"And while she is still deciding what she wants to do, she’s very strongly considering not sending product back. At the very least, she will leave Mary Kay knowing what a wonderful and caring company we are."

"I made a commitment to you as your Sales Director to help you through every stage of your business, even if that means closing your business"

"I use these interviews as a way to learn as much as I can so I can improve my training within my unit. The best way to learn what doesn’t work in Mary Kay, is to talk with someone who is closing their business."

"I learned several things through this interview:

a. She had NO communication or support from her recruiter once she came into Mary Kay. In fact I learned that her recruiter continued to pursue Hillary’s family and friends as customers and recruit prospects (ACKKK!!!) (A huge red flag to me that I needed to do more Golden Rule Business training!)

b. I learned that she LOVED having me as a director and she thought the training and support from me was great (I took her with me to my classes). However, because she had zero communication with her recruiter, she still felt lost. She didn’t want to bog me down with little questions that she had because she felt that I was probably too busy.

c. I learned that the $3600 package was too big for someone like Hillary. She shared with me in the beginning that she just wanted to do Mary Kay for fun. However when I met with her and her husband during the orientation process (He is in the sales field), I think he wanted to do Mary Kay more than she did!! It made total sense to him and he excitedly bought the $3600 package for her. She told me in her exit interview that this size package was too overwhelming to her."

As I said, the way you (and others) were treated is/was atrocious and unacceptable. No one should be ridiculed or begged to do something they don't want to do. I am sorry that happened to you and the people that were around you.


(continued from above)

I don't know the circumstances surrounding the people that quit, but perhaps you can elaborate.

When a director said "she didn't work enough", was it because the person didn't work very hard? If I was a director and a consultant called and said, "this just isn't worth it to me, I don't want to make all those phone calls and drive out to keep all those appointments", and someone asked me, "why did this consultant quit" I would probably say, "she didn't think it was worth her effort" or "she didn't want to work enough". I would not mean that as a ridicule. I would be simply relaying what was told to me. Perhaps that is my "guy" perspective, but I like to tell it like it is.

Also, for clarification, what do you mean by shunned?

Do you mean that after someone quits, her director stopped calling her? Did she stop taking her calls? Did she stop socially visiting with her?

Again, I shudder at the thought of trying to keep up with the expectations that women put on other women, and I know (from hearing women talking about each other) how cold and cruel women can be toward one another. But in what way is someone shunned once they leave Mary Kay? If you leave something (a job, a church, a secret society, etc.) what communication do you expect to maintain there? I work at an advertising agency. Because of a slow period we are experiencing, we had to severely cut the hours of our creative director. By severely cut, I mean he pretty much got laid off, "until further notice". He and I used to have lunch together almost every day. Since he stopped coming in to work on projects, I have not seen him. I have not called him, I have not emailed him. For over two months I have had no contact with the guy that I shared lunch with almost every day for a year.

Perhaps it is a luxury of being a guy but I don't feel shunned by him and I am pretty sure he feels the same. In January when things pick up again we will probably bring him back on. I am sure we will go back to having lunch together.

I share that because I am wondering what was done to qualify as shunning. I am very practical when it comes to relationships. If I have something to offer you, or you have something to offer me, let's talk. If not, I typically don't invest energy or time into a previous relationship.

Not to say that I burn bridges either. I have many friends that I keep in touch with from "back in the day". Camaraderie is very important. If I were in the position of someone who had just quit Mary Kay and felt there was value to me in staying in touch with my ex-recruiter/director, I would certainly pursue it. If the interest was not reciprocated, I would not feel shunned. Most healthy relationships go both ways.

Again, I am sorry that you landed in an area that promoted begging consultants to stay. I am sorry that people were ridiculed for quitting. And I am sorry that people were shunned. Without more to go on, I will have to assume that the "didn't work enough" accusations were misapplied to people that quit for other reasons and were lied about, and that women that had solid friendships prior to Mary Kay were shunned as a result of Mary Kay. These things are not consistent with what I have observed and have come to love about my wife's involvement with Mary Kay.

I can't say it enough, I am sorry this happened to you."

I was banned for:

While it is nice that "Looking" is supporting his wife, Pink Truth is not the forum for pro-MK people to promote their agendas. I also won't allow him to ridicule our mission or our members on this site.

Was I ridiculing the agenda here?

Was I ridiculing the members here?

Was I promoting a Pro MK agenda here?

Let me know.

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