Wednesday, January 9, 2008

Why is giving someone hope bad?

Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

It seems to me like most "executive income earning" individuals tend to exude an attitude of "you can't be me so don't even try".

The majority of the complaints that you hear from employees of big corporations is that you work really hard for the bosses with no hope of ever earning anything near what they make.

So along comes Mary Kay, and the "big bosses" say, "You CAN do what I am doing. I will even show you how I did it. It will be a lot of hard work, but if you want it, you can do it." And people criticize this.

So which you would prefer? I am not saying one is better than the other.

In one scenario, you are told (maybe daily) that "you will never amount to anything", but at least you don't have any false expectations that can be ruined later.

In the other scenario, you run the risk of getting your hopes up and then dashed cruelly upon the rocks of reality, but at least you HAD hope (however long it may or may not have lasted).

Now if you have never watched Arrested Development, you will have to go out and rent/purchase a couple DVD's and "get with it" or you won't be able to follow the following.

Michael tells G.O.B. that the family cabin is being taken down and put in storage and the land is being sold.

G.O.B. tells Michael that he didn't even know the family had a cabin.

Michael lamented that he had never been even though his dad had promised many times to take him.

G.O.B. responds that it is much worse that he never knew that there was a cabin that he hadn't been invited to.

Michaels says, "mine's worse".

G.O.B. proclaims, "I don't have a son (he does) but if I did, the ONE thing I would never do is NOT tell him that there is a cabin and THEN not take him!"


If you are tracking with me, good for you. If not, go get the DVD's. You can thank me later.

Either way, which one would you prefer?

Hope that may be false.


Blissful ignorance at the expense of lack of hope.

I am not being sarcastic. Both have some serious potential for "sucking big time". Which risk would you rather run?


  1. ...and now I'm going to have to get some AD on dvd. That was funny and clever!

    Well, Dave, I never considered it a choice between the two. Sure, as a teacher aspiring to become a principal, I rarely had my own boss cheer me on and offer to show me how to get to his position. (Of course, there aren't endless opportunities for principals and he would probably be replaced by me eventually, rather than promoted to "Senior Principal" ;) )

    But wherever I am in life and the world, I always believe in myself enough to go after whatever it is that I want. I'm never "blissfully unaware", since I make it my business to find out how to get where I want to go.

    But of course, the more support you get from the people who have gone there before you, the easier it is. Gotta love the MK system for that!
    So, hope can be good, but only if it's realistic hope. False hope will do no good.

  2. False hope is worse than no hope at all, at least you don't expect anything. And I think it is wonderful if someone has something and is willing to show others how to get the same thing - like someone making an executive income. BUT, does that person really make an executive income? I think that is the big question in MK.

  3. judi, what figure are you considering "an executive income"?

    Because I feel I do make executive income, even though I do not use this line. But I do not make 6 digits. So...

    just to be able to answer the question without being vague.

  4. I do not have a specific number in mind. But if someone is told they COULD be making an executive income they would have to assume that is larger than their current income.

    But when you think of an "executive" your mind may conjure up a person at the very top in the business world. Someone who has made it, financially. Not someone who struggling to make ends meet, making copays on a car that is "free", begging for someone to "help" her reach her goal, etc.

    I realize that "executive income" means different things to different people, but I think everyone can agree that when it is used to lure someone to a certain business, then it would mean a substantial income, not barely breaking even, or just a little higher than minimum wage once you factor in all the time.

  5. then to answer your question whether or not anyone does make executive income but not six digits, my answer for myself and the area I live in is absolutely "YES". If I were living in New York City or Los Angeles, well I would probably say no.

  6. My definition of "executive income" is at least $50K/yr. In the area where I live, I would be doing quite well on that income. I don't feel that my current activity level would take me to executive income. In my opinion, when directors say they "work" 15-20 hours per week, they are referring to time spent outside the home; whereas someone who works in a position in which they commute to an office probably is away from home at least 40 hours per week. They have to make their phone calls and do their paperwork from the office as opposed to a home-based business where one can do those things from the comfort of one's own home.

  7. If we are saying hours worked is hours worked outside the home then I am being paid to do nothing. I never leave my house at my current employment. I never liked the way they counted hours. I found it very deceptive.

  8. Judi -

    I guess working in sales is really a different type of work than what most people are used to. :o)

    If I work in any sales job, I am "on" all of the time. It doesn't mean I am stalking people, but if I am selling computers and I overhear someone saying they need a new computer, I will certainly give them a card and chat a bit. Same thing with selling cars, houses, etc.

    If I am working a sales job, then I may make phone calls or whatever from home. This doesn't count towards my hours worked and turned in at the end of the week for pay - that is work I do on my own time.

    Why? Because I will get more sales that way and a bigger paycheck.

    I guess I don't see where the way hours are counted is deceptive.
    In a traditional office-type job, people expect to "trade hours for dollars" - get a flat salary for hours worked.

    The thing I love about sales is (not just MK but any type of sales) how you really have the potential to blow the doors off and make good money. You really are unlimited in what you can make.

    Some people prefer the security of a set salary, and that's fine. They like a 9-5 job they can leave at the office, and that's fine, too.

    What can I say? I just like sales! :D

  9. Hours worked are hard for me to really give a solid figure except the number of hours I put into skin care classes/facials, meetings, or orders. SO often if I am on the phone, I have a headset on and I am doing laundry, cooking a meal, dusting, etc.. I do alot of computer work while listening to tv or have the laptop in the kitchen when I making a meal. If I am going grocery shopping I can have the radio on soft and be on the phone,or be listening to a cd- I guess I could just drive but I have a very hard time sitting still so the more I am doing the better. So how do you count it if I choose to chat while I cook??

    Likewise, I can be out grocery shopping, and come up to a $100 reorder so in the couple of minutes it take me to listen to the message and package it up, profit is $50, for about 5 minutes worth of work. I guess some of this stuff works so nicely into other things I do that it just doesn't seem like work. Tonight, hubby and I bowl on a league, a client walked over handed me a slip of paper and said, would you bring this in next week?? Is that working? I don't think so but I made money. (I was in a football starter shirt and jeans with bowling shoes) Hours I FEEL like I am working is when the time is totally dedicated to Mary Kay. I wish I could count reading the blogs as MK work (ya know - research) but no way...

    anyway I guess it is true that if you really love what you do, it doesn't seem like work.

  10. Judi--what are you referring to as your current employment? I was talking about time spent in front of customers (e.g. holding appointments, interviews, meeting) in Mary Kay vs. someone who works in an office setting who has to commute to a place not their home to sit at a desk and get paid for whatever it is they do there. If their job involves calling clients and they have to do it from that office, then they spend 40 hours working outside the home as opposed to a Mary Kay consultant who might hold, say 5 appointments in one week. At 2 hours each, she is spending 10 hours per week at appointments. Then there is her meeting night which is probably another 2 hours. We're up to 12 hours away from the home. If she has to go deliver some product that might be another hour. If she has to go meet someone for an interview, that might be another hour or two. So, that could add up to 15-20 hours outside the home. The other work: phone calls, weekly accomplishments, taking inventory, emailing, ordering, etc.; all takes place AT HOME. That other time at home might be an additional 10-20 hours of work depending on how much stuff you have to do, but you're AT HOME as opposed to at a corporate office as you would be working for someone else.
    I hope that makes sense.

  11. OH! And I thought of something else! They are also saying that if you are out at appointments just 20 hours out of the week and you have a $1000 sales week, your profit is $500 (or $400 if you do the 40/60 rule) and some people have to work 40 hours outside the home to make that kind of money. Do you see it now?
    I suppose you could call it "executive income" if you consistently hold 3-5 classes/week selling $300-$500 each class PLUS you're a director earning the commission from your unit. Directors, am I painting an accurate picture?

  12. I work two jobs from home. Both are accounting related. My office is in my home. I usually work while the kiddies are still asleep, in my pajamas with a towel wrapped around my wet hair, fresh from the shower. But when I have to talk to employees or tenants, I count that time as work, even if I am cooking, I am still working. And when someone asks me how long it takes per week to do my work, I count how long it actually takes to do my work, not how long people SEE me working.

    The reason I have a big problem with the MK hours, is because my director and my national both only counted time in front of customers during a class. I asked, "Realistically, how long does it take to do this job?" To get from point A (booking a class) to point B (pocketing the money). I wanted to know how much time would be devoted AWAY from my kids. If I am on the phone, I am not taking care of my kid. I had an infant at the time, which was why this question was so important to me. And I realize that they could not give me an exact amount of time, but my director is a director for more than 15 hours a week. In a moment of frustration she once told me it took 4 hours total just to hold her meeting! From setup to clean up. That's 4 hours away from her kids.

    I would just like new IBC's to come into this with eyes wide open. If your recruiter tells you that you do not have to be a good salesman to do this job, RUN. That is so not the case. As MKShay said, you have to ALWAYS be on. Cooking, cleaning, driving. If you are trying to make an actual living, there is no down time in the beginning.

  13. Thank you for clarifying, Judi. I more fully understand where you are coming from. I would have to say I know plenty of consultants personally who count their drive time, prep time, delivery time, gift-wrapping time, etc. when they talk about their sales weeks. I like that they do that. It definitely paints a more realistic picture. Most of these women I know are holding selling appointments that are bringing in enough sales to still justify the time spent. For example, the consultant holds a class that lasts about 2 hours, but then she also factors in time she spent driving to the appointment, filling the orders (if she didn't haul all her stuff to the appointment), and delivery. So, her report will be 5 hours. The director usually wants her to just report the time spent in the class, but she doesn't. So, if it was a $600 class, she made $240 (I use 40/60). Now, the director would like to say she made it in 2 hours meaning she made $120/hr. Like you, Judi, I believe that is a bit too embelished. If she goes by the time reported by the consultant--5 hours--she made $48/hr. That is still quite impressive to me. I make nowhere near that at my day job. But, people also have to understand they need to look at the bigger picture. That's one class, one week. One woman I know who reports her time in this way, was having consistent $800-$1200 weeks in sales. Sometimes, it was reorders. When the reorder business comes into play, then less hours are really worked (less time outside the home). Even for the reorders this consultant reports time spent preparing the orders.
    Time management is so important in MK because if you don't map out your work hours you will start to feel like it's all you do.

  14. Judi, I have to ask you; were you working from home when you were approached about Mary Kay your first time in? The reason I ask is because if you were my customer and you already had a work from home job, I would probably not have pursued you as a team member. I mean no offense, but the reason I have become more involved in MK is because I'd like a job that is based from home and I'm the boss. Right now, I don't have that kind of job and I can't seem to find one either. :) It sounds like you are in that situation already. Whenever I ask someone if they'd be interested in MK, I typically look for someone who might want to do this; meaning, I can see where it might fit their needs or wants in some way.

    Now, if you LOVE the product and you have friends and family who also love it, I might ask if you'd be interested in being a part-time consultant so you can do basically what you're doing now or selling to make a little extra money. ;)

    P.S. I wouldn't make any false promises, but I would talk about the potential that is there.

  15. When I started MK I was working a 40 hour work week at an office. My oldest didn't want to stay at the grandparents anymore so I gave my notice and that same day went to a SCC. I joined a few days after my last day at the office.

    My director told me that I would be able to spend time with my child. Then I signed and she advised me to get a sitter so I could concentrate on MK. She told me that she had a sitter for 8 hours during the day and her husband kept them while she was at her meeting once a week. BEFORE I signed, she told me she loved MK because it allowed her to stay with her kids during the day.

    My director and my national embellished income, mislead on time worked, exagerrated (sp?) the ease of getting bookings. I reported both of them to corporate about some of the deception.

    I really have to commend those who are doing this business right and not misleading masses. If you can make it, wonderful. If you can't make it as a sole income, don't lead others to believe this job is any more than it really is.

  16. judi, I have to comfess, I don't agree with alot of what you have been told.

    but I would like to say, if you want a black and white answer on how much time it will take to make money, you just aren't going to get one. Some people can book very easy and not need alot of phone time (me), some people can do a 45 class and be in an out (not me). Some people will go out and warm chat or hand out goodies bags, so many hours so many days (way not me, so will do a four hour bridal fair for loads of leads (me), some will take tons of time to get ready and clean up after a meeting (not me) - so it just isn't really possible to - some people will have $400 classes (sometimes me) others won't. If a consultant class totals are small and another big of course it is going to take the small class consultant longer to earn the same amount of money.

    Once again, I disagree with alot of what you told us your director has said but perhaps alot of the questions you ask, you are looking for black and white answers and there really are only gray ones.

  17. I was not looking for black and white answers. I was looking for straight answers. My director made it sound so easy and as I am not stupid, I questioned her. I wanted FACTS. I wanted HER real story, not her I-story, which tugs on emotion. I wanted to hear exactly what it took. When I questioned as to why others weren't doing so great, she always said it was because they didnt' work their business. They didn't work hard enough. I knew that that wouldn't be a problem with me. I'm a hard worker.

    On weight loss commercials they show these tiny people and in the background what they looked like at their biggest. Then in small type at the bottom is "Results not typical." I think that should be said when a recruiter is talking about their high check, especially if that check is dated more than 4 weeks. If any part of what the recruiter is selling, be it part time hours, earnings, etc, then it should be told to the recruit whether or not this is a common occurance for the majority.

  18. judi, couldn't agree with you more on those commercials, boy do I wish some of them work the way they say. Would love to loose about 25 lbs!!

    I do hear what you are saying but on the other hand, it is always said "What is your "Highest Check ever"? Not what is your typical check. I actuall in my interviewing do show my highest ever check and then continue to say but my average check is this and flip to my average check. I do explain the difference is simply I don't choose to put in as much time now with my new life as I did back then. However after the kiddies all graduate (years from now) I have every intention of making my highest my norm.

    I think you will be fine this time around in MK, you have certainly learned from your experiences, what NOT to do, so now you can do what works for you. I for one, are looking to seeing you have a favorable experience this time around, on your terms. Plus you still have all of us over here for any questions.

    Sort of like an online director/unit meeting.

    Have an awesome weekend!


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