Here is an interesting read for any of you that are actually still interested in what Pink Truth is ranting about these days.
On the surface, I would even (erroneously) suggest that this is "fresh" material.
"havurah", at first glance, seems to be taking a new angle on the whole Mary Kay situation.
Unfortunately, it is very difficult to find any consistent point, there are few points that she makes that are backed up with anything more than regurgitated Pink Truth propaganda, and the point that she does make - namely, that God is God, Cosmetics are Cosmetics, and Mary Kay is Mary Kay - is one that (for my money) everyone should either already know or stand to be manipulated by people claiming to speak on behalf of God (again).
Proof of concept? Look no further than Pink Truth. More specifically, look no further than the post that we are talking about here. One of Pink Truth's strongest, most persuasive, and most contentious arguments against Mary Kay is their own variety of religious manipulation.
And no, I am not referring to the ones that suggest that "using religion as a selling tactic" is wrong. Pink Truth(ers) (not all, but enough) use religious manipulation to bolster their argument for supporting Pink Truth. Much the same way they claim they were manipulated (and did manipulate) when they were in Mary Kay.
Since havurah clearly reads here, I wonder if she would care to clear up one thing for us? How is it that someone who claims to be crusading for the cause of separation of church and Mary Kay (or in this case some hybrid of Christianity and Judaism - and Mary Kay) feels the need to stir (or attempt to stir) the pot about people's belief systems?
Also, how is it that someone who understands this:
"MARY KAY INC., is simply a factory. If the MARY KAY CORP., MLM disappeared tomorrow the factory would still be churning out other label products for other clients."
Can have any problem with this company? Clearly, it is the very people that you are associating with now (Pink Truth) - the ones that got carried away with fanciful and fanatical imaginations, faced disillusionment, and are now fanatical in their opposition to, as you say, "a factory" - that are the problem here.
Don't get me wrong, there are clearly still plenty of the "fanciful fanatics" in Mary Kay... but you are clearly aligning yourself with the crowd that can't (or wont) let go of this unique brand of obsession. How can you, in good conscience, preach, "GOD is GOD and personal products are personal products and there is no nexus between them." to the "choir" of people (Pink Truth) that can't seem to grasp this.
My only guess is that you don't believe it yourself. Which would lead one, logically, to believe that you are only using all this rhetoric to rally the forces (Pink Truth) behind your fuzzy version of this strange manipulation game.
I know that you made a big "slip-up" by mentioning this site in the comments. (If you haven't already been, you should expect a rebuke from your fearless leader.) But for my part, I will express my gratitude for that kindness. Also, if your brashness leads to your eventual banning, please know that you are always welcome here. (More accurately, that should read "When" ...your brashness leads to...)
Meantime, please feel free to drop us a line here. We may not seem that exciting here, because, for the most part, we are the "boring", non-fanciful types that see Mary Kay the way that you claim to. It is just a company.
We promise. We wont bite. (too much)
P.S. (I try very hard to not us the "phrase" - LOL - , but I have to admit that I very much enjoyed "No, I am not Noam Chomsky" **LOL** (there, you got it out of me) ;)
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Once again, I think alot of the "religious" stuff tends be different depending on what part of the Country you live in. I think I have read more use of religion on pt than I have heard in my MK world.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I believe that any type of manipulations is wrong but from reading pt, I guess they feel the only type of manipulation that is bad is religious. (Other forms of manipulation are okay) ??
For me, I would think the more in touch one is with their beliefs and their religion, the less likely they should be to fall to the use of this type of manipulation. I can be the best that I can be whether it is in Mary Kay or in any other way to earn a living. I don't believe if I walked away from MK, I would be a failure letting God or myself down. (Hey we are selling makeup and skin care, we aren't nuns). If I were loosing money and continued to do so, all I can say, is the Lord would be looking down on me, thinking... I pity the poor fool, I gave her a brain, why doesn't she use it?
I am not one to throw out Scriptures, but doesn't the Bibe say, God helps those that help themselves?
As far as praying, much of it is a personal issue. I would NOT be praying for A Million Dollar unit ( it is in excess of what I need to live) .. but praying to earn a living and to help others and just to allow my to be the best I can be doing what I have {chosen} to do.
But havurah, David, and I all agree, Mary Kay is a Business. Period, if you want out, get out. If you are loosing money, get out. If you love it, great stay in. Do peopel really think if they get out of MK, God will love themless??
Was havurah a consultant? I don't remember, but if she was, then what is her complaint? Obviously the type of manipulation she is complaining about, shouldn't have had any effect on her, so she would have just walked away.
If I even tried saying some of the things I read my unit would look me and probably bust out laughing. Hey, Mk is a way to make money. Almost every time I go into my bank there is a new teller, the former one quit and went some place else. Not once did I think, oh, she must have been a lazy looser to have quit the bank. She just wanted to do something else. Why is it any different if a consultant leaves MK. It is just a career choice, nothing more, nothing less.
But for those that tend to be more "preachy" - this is the USA, we have freedom of speech, for me, I am a sales director and my job is to teach how to book, sell, book, sell, book,product knowledge, communication, money management, team building, etc.... How I conduct myself and treat othres should be how I "sell" my faith. I am not nor do I want to be a preacher.
My unit meetings are just that... training. If I want to hear a sermon or a mass, I will go to Church.
-Peace be with you :)
Yes, PT is full of Bible quotes and Christian this and that. Every once in a blue moon, someone like Havurah adds some Jewish stuff.
ReplyDeleteThat was one of the things that always bugged me: I thought we were talking about a cosmetics company, not about church. "This company is wrong because GOD says blah de blah de blah in the particular holy book I believe in." I think that's bananas. Talk about company policies, company employee behavior, company financial dealings. A company sinks or swims (or gets corrupted) based on those things. It all boils down to money. I think religion should be a personal thing. If you think xyz company is bad because your religion says something they do is wrong, ok fine. But jeez, can the preaching already. Business and religion don't mix. It's inappropriate. It's also really freakin annoying. If yr on PT and not Christian, or at least Jewish, yr going to feel like an outsider even though no one will single you out, just from all the Bible verses flying around. BLARGH
I rarely hear about God/Jesus in my unit meetings. Occasionally we'll get a director, or visiting SD who brings him/her up, but it hasn't been used to the extent that havurah's article claims. Maybe mk4me is right, it depends on the area you are in.
ReplyDeleteI personally don't have a problem with praying before a meeting, and I don't think my Pagan friend would either. That's what "God made selective hearing for.
I watched the Presidential inaugaration yesterday. I counted at least two prayers, probably more during the process. Does that mean we should be pissed at our government? Get over it already.
Do people take the "god first" philosophy to extremes? Sure. Some do. If you don't like it, don't participate. If you are that easily sucked in, perhaps you need to work on self-esteem issues.
I won't lie. I've never understood how people get caught up in cults and such. I question everything. Always have. If someone told me MK was the messiah, I'd run in the other direction. God didn't lead me to MK,anymore than he led me to working with people with disabilities and children. My empty crock pot did.
I think there are extremes on both sides of this issue. "God first" is not a new concept to religious people. It's just that different people interpret it differently. Some MK ladies use to to evangelize. Some PTer's have experienced that and judge all MKer's by that. It's ridiculous and prejudiced. We're not all religious fanatics any more than all PTer's are lazy losers...
Ack! I'm going on and on. Enough!
BTW, havurah, you might want to quit referring to yourself in the third person. It makes you seem a little... (stage whispers)crazy. You make some excellent points and you write well, but talking about yourself in the third person makes you lose credibility.
Kim
Mary Kay, the woman, was intelligent, ahead of her time, kind, and a hard worker. She accomplished more than many could but... she was still just an extraordinary woman who put her "panty hose" on one leg at a time just like the rest of us. She should be respected not worshipped.
ReplyDeleteI actually kind of am p.o.'d at our former president for attempting to intrude his religious beliefs upon government policy. Luckily, he's now out of office!
ReplyDeletePardon my spelling. I'm in a hurry and don't have time to spellcheck.
ReplyDeleteI get that Miranda. The only two words I had for Bush were "BUH, bye!" I don't believe that politics and religion mix, BUT, I didn't have a problem with the prayers said during the inugaration. I tuned them out as I went about my business. How hard is it for others to do the same?
I'm brain-farting all over the place. Sick kids keeping me up all night make me not able to finish a thought. I understand what PT is saying about MK religious manipulation, I just don't get it in my area the way those women were. I get so frustrated at all of us MK reps being lumped into one pigeon hole.
I believe that some people take the "God first", "Christian company" lines to extreme. I believe that some people do use it to manipulate. I haven't seen it ,yet, for myself, so I KNOW that not every MK director does it.
That said, I understand how women who have been manipulated, feel. A company called me today wanting donations to send care packages to military personal in Iraq and Afganistan. When I told the man I was broke, he pulled the, "do you know the sacrafice these people are making" line. "Yeah, my brother is in Afganistan as we speak!" He was flabbergasted and I was furious! I don't think people should be made to feel guilty for not being able to send money. And I'm mighty tired of people using this line.
Sorry, went off on a tangent there. Anyway, I feel the same way about people using God that way. My personal belief is that God helps those who help themselves. He doesn't pick the football team that prays better. He doesn't listen to one competer over another. He doesn't choose one nation over another. S...tuff just happens. That's why we have free will.
God first, to me, means put God ahead of everything. Then everything else falls into place. Family second means I take care of my family before anything else. Career third, means work your butt off w/out putting it ahead of your family. That doesn't mean that having a babysitter watch my children while I work, puts them behind my career. It means they are well taken care of while I work to put bacon on the table.
Blah, blah... I'm totally off topic. I need to make some phone calls so I'm not broke anymore.
Kim