Well, Pink Truth seems to think that they can infringe on any material they would like to, but as most of you know, they have no problem manipulating the DMCA to force bloggers hand to take down any post here that even quotes their site. So, while I would like to point out the glaring foolishness in "raisinberry's" post by quoting and then responding, I don't want to provide any fuel for more bullying.
So check out the post here - Pink Truth and Common Sense... a combination not likely to be seen
And match the corresponding responses:
1. Phrase not meant to be taken literally
2. If you are not selling that much, are you really "selling" at all?
3. Did you really think they would just give you a $25,000 car for "earning" $18,000? Really?
4. Have you ever heard of a motivating expression? Note to "raisinberry", "You're on fire" does not mean that you should frantically look for an extinguisher.
5. Unless someone told you that filling out a worksheet was the same thing as having a business plan... and you believed it... this point makes no sense.
6. Has anyone heard this one? It seems like it may have been a grotesquely stretched 'saying' that was taken horrifically out of context. Regardless, not having a customer base and/or sales income does not mean you have to order on credit. It means you should not order. Honestly.
7. Perhaps this one should be (or more likely "is") rephrased - "Reinvest until you are at the profit level you want to be at.
8. Ummm not sure what this is meant to prove. Is this statistic oft repeated in MK? I think its more like 700K, but either way, is that a small number? Seems like a lot of women like Mary Kay to me. How many of you (pt types) are there that hate it? I think you are outnumbered.
9. So, by your math, 14,000 (actually you said 1 MIL, so 20K, but whose counting) women in MK are making more than 50,000. I have not heard this statistic that you say MK-bots repeat, but it would seem that there is a good chance that there are no other companies paying out $50K + to 14,000 of their 'sales force'. Perhaps, 'raisinberry', you could name a few?
10. Operative word here, can. You can do it too. Not "you will" not "it will be easy", "you can. Forget the whole fame and fortune thing and just focus on selling the product. This is not a scheme unless you make it one. You are selling cosmetics for crying out loud. Get out there and sell them. Be assertive. If selling cosmetics is not for you, find something else you are good at.
11. I am not sure how this one was presented to you, but if you signed up for something because someone told you it was "taught at Harvard", I question your judgment. Perhaps a polite, "that's nice" would have sufficed. And if you passed this information on to others without verifying the validity of it and understanding it, shame on you. You perpetuated the problem. Way to be proud of that.
12. "To walk with confidence" is exactly what this (here comes that phrase again) motivating expression is supposed to inspire. That you took it to mean lie says something. Doesn't it.
13. Again, motivating expression. NOT excuse to do wrong.
14. Motivating expression. (And I seriously hope the floating on milk thing was your own addition to this) Look, as you found out, "loading up other women in CC debt" doesn't work for the long term anyway. So why do you keep insisting that this is the way the "successful" ones do it. "Their end is (as yours was) in disaster".
15. Show me these "statistics". By the way, 20/80 'rule' is just a guide that fits into almost any scenario you can imagine. 20% of the ______ do/consume/spend/etc. 80% of the _______. It has been used to apply to just about anything... and almost always rings true to a certain degree. 20% of the idiots in the world create 80% of the problems for the rest of us. See, now you try it. It will always work. 20% of the words I type on this blog tell 80% of the story. Oh, and I am pretty sure that mk4me expects to make money training consultants. My wife's director does too. MK corporate seems to invest a good deal of money into this as well.
16. *sigh* You can go ahead an "buy" your stupid ribbon if you want. You can stick it to your pile of inventory. The rest of those beaming winners... earned it. Maybe. Thing is, you don't know. But, simply put, yes... MK rewards activity. And, yes, if you want to fake it, you can. But for the love of all that is holy and pure, why would you?
17. Motivating expression. Misused, I am sure. Easy to see through? Should be.
18. I am sure that some people will disagree with me, but this one and the one before it should really not be taken as literally as some people seem to make it. If you are not making enough money to comfortably pay for an event from your profit, you are not making enough money to make it worth your time. Get back to work and earn that trip.
19. The secret to your success was obviously getting out of Mary Kay. Honestly, if these were "secrets" you were looking for and waiting for, you would have been in a long time. What exactly did you think was meant by, "it takes a lot of hard work"? A shovel maybe? Hammer and nails?
20. Motivating expression. And, whoa, did you just zone out at every Mary Kay event/training/etc. and substitute your own ideas for what they were saying? The whole point of this motivating expression is that your attitude is extremely important. I am not sure if you even noticed that the wording implies that you can do everything wrong and still succeed.
21. Motivating expression. (I swear, I feel like a 2nd grade teacher explaining these) This one is meant to encourage you not to quit. Sometimes things get tough. You shouldn't let these things make you quit. You should be strong. This doesn't mean that if you are not making money and you are unhappy that you should keep bashing your head against the wall hoping that the bruise you are giving yourself will turn into sweet ice cream.
22. I can honestly say that I am genuinely impressed at your ability to assume that because you had limited success with Mary Kay that it must be that way for all of Mary Kay. Your blissful unawareness of the most basic of life principles leaves me in awe. Congratulations.
Your arrogance, "You owe us nothing" makes me wonder if you were one of those consultants that suggested to her clients that the 'blessing of your presence' ought to be considered prize enough in exchange for whatever you were asking them to do.
You should probably go back to sleep now. It is a much happier place there, I am sure, than in this big scary world where... oh wait a minute, that must be why "negative" comments like this one aren't allowed on your site. Only Pink Truth can be negative. And only about Mary Kay. And we don't call it "negative". We prefer to call it "The Truth". It has a much nicer ring that way.
Posts
I seriously do take issue with MK saying there are no quotas. It's chock full of quotas, why not just admit it. Minimum order amount to qualify for wholesale pricing, minimum this minimum that...and those minimums are pretty high.
ReplyDeleteI think MK they would be more honest in representing themselves, fewer people would join up believing things that are far from true (such as no quotas), and then crash and burn when they find MK to be far from what they were told it was. I feel like it's a bait and switch. I wish they would just tell it straight up.
typos. sorry. not enough coffee.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of a quota in direct sales, I think of things such as: one must have so many parties a month or one must sell a certain dollar amount every week, but I admit this is just me.
ReplyDeleteNow to be an active consultant one must place a minimum order of $200 wholesale, but I don't see this as a quota except if you want ot stretch it and say that your "quota" as a consultant is one $200/wholesale order a year. As long as you do this, you will remain a consultant.
I believe there is a difference between a minimum order amount and a quota. (But that is just me).
Now in my interview, I say, ****there isn't actually quota's, for consultants: however, to remain a consultant all that is required is one $200 wholesale order a year which will purchase you $400 retail and you pay tax on retail and $8.75 s/h. For the two months after you place a minimum order you do "earn" a 50% discount so that you can place any size order and receive 50% off. Once you move out of this window, you are required to purchase a minimum order to receive your discount.
Now of course if you decide to go for the car or directorship, we do have production requirements, the Company doesn't just give these things away (light hearted giggle), but most people realize there will be certain requirements for the bigger perks.
**This concludes that portion of my Company Info during a presentation***
Now with my interpretation of quota, I still don't see a specific quota put on a person. As far as you must personally do so much to get the car - because truthfully, one could contribute zero production and earn a car. If you had a hot shot that her team did $18,000 in one month and she was active, she could acheive the car with zero personal production (I admit not very likely but possible). Likewise directorship. And yes once you are a car driver or directorship you would want to be active but if one can't place a $200/order once every third month at these levels, they have no business being at these levels.
Maybe there needs to be a better definition of what one considers a "quota".
I know I often order prizes from Company where a minimum order is required to even place an order, I don't see that as a quota.
My interpretation is this...if you are a consultant, then you should be able to get your products at wholesale price. If a consultant has to order a certain dollar amount at a certain interval (every 2-3 months?) to be able to receive her products wholesale rather than retail like a plain customer, I view it as being a quota.
ReplyDeleteThe cars and other stuff I view separately because they are optional.
Unrelated question for mk4me: What kinds of application brushes is MK currently selling? Do they take product recommendations from the sales force?
ReplyDeleteBrushes I consider essential:
big fluffy powder brush, tapered/rounded
medium size fluffy blush brush, tapered/rounded (also useful for contouring)
Dense, rounded kabuki brush for applying mineral foundation
small flat liner brush with firm bristles
small angled liner/brow brush with firm bristles
Tapered shadow "fluff" brush for blending and browbone (largest of the shadow brushes)
Small dense rounded (can be angled or not) eyeshadow brush for lid application
Eye "crease" brush, which has bristles that come out of a cylinder-shaped ferrule and taper to a rounded point
and of course a lip brush, but I am pretty certain they already sell that.
I just don't think it's fair to be condescending to the people that join Mary Kay because they believe a director or recruiter's spiel. See, people consider Mary Kay to be an authentic job/business. They believe that the person hiring/recruiting them is honestly looking for a new employee/team member. Legitimate businesses that are hiring employees do not usually lie to the employee to get them to take the job because they want a person who will be a good fit with their company and hiring position. They describe the position accurately "we desire a candidate with full knowledge of computers/accounting/finance able to work x hours per week at x starting salary, professional dress required. They ask questions during the interview to feel out the candidate. Are you willing to work overtime? Do you have child care? Can you work some weekends? The realities of the position are laid out before the applicant because the employer does not want to waste their time with an employee that quits or is sub par. Where am I going with this?
ReplyDeleteBack to the condescension. Some consultants and directors will try to recruit anyone. I know, I was an anyone. They make you feel competent and you believe them because you believe this is an actual legitimate business. I would not expect the manager of even a restaurant to lie, overstate or embellish a position to hire me, so why would I expect a director of a legitimate company to do so? So, you agree to the position you were "interviewed" for and you trust the inventory advice of a director of this legitimate company the way you would trust the advice of a manager of another company when hired for a real position. Do you get where I am going with this? People are not gullible for believing that the people that hold positions as directors and consultants are operating under company guidelines. I believed Mary Kay was a legitimate company but the condoned actions of their independent consultants showed otherwise.
Here is the problem. Mary Kay wants to be seen as a professional company. Good Mary Kay Directors and consultants are getting screwed by people that lie/embellish/overstate because the people that do that are unprofessional. They represent Mary Kay the company so people believe that they are operating under Mary Kay's blessing. You can state all day that these are independent operators but customers and burned consultants don't give a rat's ass about independent. All they see is Mary Kay harasses customers or screws consultants- based on their experience with the bad directors and consultants.
I was not stupid to believe that I could make a lot of money, that Mary Kay was Harvard taught. This was told to me by a company appointed director using company approved materials the same as every legitimate job opportunity I had applied for in the past. I never had to do research to get a job as a waitress, I presented my skills and my availability and was hired or not hired.
A lot of pters are a-holes. But I think that the non-dramatic non-mary kay is a vacuous cult members have a lot to offer to Mary Kay as the company in the way of information. If true operators like MK4Me and believers like you want the critiques to stop, then your company needs to crack down on these people that make the company look bad. I have reported and many others have. Nothing has changed. The director and consultant continue to operate in a shady manner. It's not just me and it's not isolated. I bet I can name as many people with bad experiences as you can name with good. In different states, people I personally know, not random bloggers.
I know I am rambling but I feel I can't get to a central point here. Point one: People are not stupid to believe directors appointed by the company- it gives them authority that appears to be backed by Mary Kay. The way a manager of a different business has authority.
Point two: Mary Kay is partially responsible for this bad image because it has allowed it to go on for so long
Point three: Good people in the company are being hurt by bad people giving putting out a bad image. An example is this: I hate Outback Steakhouse. I have had deplorable service every. single. time. At 4 different restaurants. I know people who have gone and enjoyed it but I would starve before parking in their parking lot. I tell everyone I know about their crummy service and I refuse to go there. I have complained, written a letter to the company and there was no change. The restaurant is now under new management but I will never risk my money there again. The new management may be great, but they will never get back many of the customers who were disgruntled by the bad management. They may never get back the frustrated employees who quit from the bad management. Their business is hurt by another's actions. Other Outback's are hurt by customers and employees who had bad experiences in our city and refuse to risk going there. One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch and ruin the reputation of the store that's selling them.
your mom, you articulated beautifully what I truly felt from beginning to end.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was "interviewed" I was so nervous that "my director" wouldn't hire me. Why? Because I had never held a sales position in my life.
Looking back on my entire experience, it wasn't about merit. It was about money (for her). As in how much I could afford to invest in my business (which I had zero say in my inventory which is wrong on so many levels).
That Corporate didn't support me spoke volumes. And you're right! It undermines legit MKers BIG TIME~! MKC could handle this type of "infraction" from the first complaint. But my experience is that they don't! Why not? Well, most of us would follow the money. Hence sites like PT. And we really feel the need to "forewarn" everyone which, ultimately undermines legit MKers to make money! It's such a downward spiral!
Kudos to your for being so articulate. You validate my feelings. I'm intelligent to know that there are many like mk4me. Unfortunately there are so many that seem to be working at cross-purposes. (Greedy directors.)
Do you post at PT? You know, you could be the "Melinda" (Ghost Whisperer) of PT. Your post is not emotional. It's articulate and intelligent. Direct but not offensive. This type of message would help to salve gaping wounds.
You should get into/run for municipal politics. That's where you belong! :)
Hey there Miranda, will give you a breakdown of the brushes available soon. We do have a great mineral foundation brush now, I have been using it and love it... detail on professional brush set coming..
ReplyDeleteI love the way that everything is taken so literally from many of the posters on pt. Pointed out someplace, you are on fire doesn't mean to go grab a fire extinguisher and put out the fire. The saying “I am as cold as ice, doesn’t mean I am at 32 Degrees Fahrenheit. How about “I am so hungry, I could eat a horse?” – ummmm, I could never be that hungry! If I tell someone to go take a long walk on a short pier, I do not really mean it.
ReplyDeleteI concur that many do exaggerate and oversell and that is wrong, wrong, wrong, Mary Kay, herself, always said, “under sell and over deliver”. But common sense must be called upon.
And raisnberry needs to change her name to drama mama queen, egad, is that woman really for real?? I have come to a conclusion that if she hasn’t found a new career yet, she should consider writing for a soap opera.
Thanks flybye! Municipal politics, huh? I think I'll leave that to people who want the resposibility, I'm pursuing a degree to teach college. Politics give me heartburn, thank god this election year is over. I can finally reduce the amount of money I had to direct to my Tums budget and spend it on something fun- like a new car.
ReplyDeleteI don't post on PT. The few times I have, I've been mysteriously unable to log in after pissing off the moderator. I read over there for fun but I don't like several aspects of the site.
They call MK a cult, which it's not. Cults are serious business and I really think comparing a cosmetics company to the type of group-think that has made parents pour cyanide down their children's throats is pretty darn dramatic.
I think that having the legitimately screwed people hanging around with the former unscrupulous directors and recruiters is pretty lame. Imagine being in a violence support group and having a bunch of violent offenders sitting around in your group whining about how terrible violence is. It's really quite messed up.
The mod is very immature for a grown woman with all of her skills. Her little comments, her banning of people after she gets the last snarky word are all very unattractive.
The women can be very mean to one another. It's a "mean girl" party any time one poster slips up. All the other girls jump on the ripping bandwagon like sharks that smell blood.
I think that the concept of PT is great. I think that there should be a page of stories for women that got screwed. I think it's helpful and that it makes MK accountable. It puts negative information in their face. I don't mean that they read it every day the way the moderator speculates. I mean that it causes problems for directors and consultants when women read it. Then those directors and consultants have to find solutions whether it be contacting corporate or changing their activities.
It informs women who may be in contact with an unscrupulous group and gives them pause for thought and questions to ask.
But the web site itself is not for me. I don't like snotty girl gangs and I even avoid this site when I feel like people on it are being too b**chy. I'd rather read a good book then watch people tear each other up.
@Your Mom:
ReplyDeleteI left there ages ago because my friends were all getting banned in droves for either no reason or nonsensical reasons. So I just made a last post saying "goodbye, it is time for me to leave" and I left. I created an account at Pink Lighthouse instead (which, if you haven't opened an account there already, I think you would like).