Monday, March 17, 2008

New Commentator - Your take on this

A new commentator has joined us - Dazzling Diva Dana. There were enough elements in her comment that I felt the discussion would best evolve as its own post.

I have reposted the majority of her comment here (with my responses bold and in italics).

I would love for everyone to get involved with this discussion as many of the things brought up here are important to our discussion of Mary Kay.

Click the link below to see the comment and my responses. Thanks

Unfortunately, you ladies are in truly in the pink vortex.

There truly is NO way to do MK in the "right way."

The system is broken.

What does “pink vortex” mean? Are you telling us that the above “facts” are SO well established that anyone who believes you CAN do MK with ethics is in a vortex of ignorance?

Yes, old school training is to book, sell, recruit - working "full circle."

How well is that working for you really?

Are women calling you begging to hold skincare classes? Hmm?

Here is where some “pro-mkers” have the tendency to want to call “anti-mkers” lazy. You can’t expect women to call YOU begging for anything… it doesn’t work that way. YOU have to call them… lots of them! If someone told you that they would call you… I am sorry to say… they lied to you. No one on this site has said that this is easy (too my knowledge!)

Are you having $1000 weeks on a consistent basis? Making $400 profit with the 60/40 split?

or are you plowing all "profits" back into the MK business either attempting to pay off a credit card or purchasing even MORE inventory?

I will let the consultants answer these questions individually and not speak for the group but I will point out that everyone will have different goals in mind. For some “plowing profits” into their business is good. (I am NOT advocating debt though)

Even if you build up your selling business, you will at some point be encouraged by your Director, Sr. Director, or NSD to gouge your sales, but recruiting your best customers.

You will be encouraged to become a Red Jacket, Team Leader, on-target for DIQ, etc.

These things are all good… but you are making them sound bad. Care to elaborate?

The ONLY way you will move up in the company is recruit and frontload.

Simply not true. Recruit yes. Frontload no. In fact, I think frontloading is the quickest “ticket” to failure in Mary Kay.

HUGE thousands in "Production" is a requirement to move up and "win a free car" (with a co-pay by the way).

Achieving new levels and EARNING a free car are awarded when you are making the company money. If it didn’t require HUGE production it would be kind of pointless… don’t you think?

It has nothing to do with SALES, MK rewards women because of product ordered by them or their team members.

The intent is still for you to SELL. It is illogical to me how someone would decide to pay for thousands of dollars of product they have no intention of selling just to earn something that MAY be worth a few hundred dollars. Nonetheless, the fact that some people do/have done this does not mean that it was ever the company’s intention. MK (like most product based companies) offers its distributors awards based on the inventory ordered. Trying to “cheat” a company the way you are describing does not make sense for anyone. The company should not be held culpable for this sort of imprudence.

You WILL learn to frontload - but you will be told that you're setting the women up for success with a full store.

Again – ticket to failure. Hopefully no one on this site is doing this or will “learn” to ever.

Hmm... Are you really?

No, frontloading is not setting women up for success.

MK is all about greed. It's a Pink Cult of greed and until you ladies realize that, you're caught up in the lie.

Is it POSSIBLE that the MK you experienced and witnessed is a small part of a picture that if seen in its completeness turned out to be different than what you have seen?

Most people on this site have come to terms with the fact that their experience (good or bad) may or may not be the TYPICAL experience. Can you at least acknowledge that possibility with your experience?

You'll find out soon enough when you stop ordering excessive product that is not immediately needed, just to reach a star level order - that you hear from your Director much less often.

If you are not regularly producing for any company what purpose would they have to stay in constant touch with you? Do you want them to call you to chat? This IS a business. Can you imagine the district supervisor of distribution for (say) Pepsi daily or monthly calling a distributor that orders once a quarter? Not likely.

If you stop ordering for a few months, be prepared for a guilt trip that you're not being a team player.

This is being discussed here

Then, either the pink friendship fade-out will occur, or you will get kicked to the curb with thier "required close-toed shoe."

Sorry to hear that excuses needed to be made. This doesn’t really make sense to me…perhaps because I am a guy! If you were not producing I would have one conversation about it with you. Are you done? Yes, okay… thanks for everything, call if you need anything down the road. No, okay… what do we need to get you back “in the game”. I see no reason to make excuses for why I am not calling you.

They will step over you and say, "NEXT."

Why shouldn’t they? Again, it is a business.

If you think my "NEXT" comment is too harsh, have you listed to Pam Shaws cassettes? Or the offical MK DIQ training cassette from early 2000, where they talk about MK being a "numbers game afterall."

Why is this “harsh”? All sales jobs/occupations boil down to a numbers game. That is the nature of sales. Mary Kay is unique in that it allows for “half hearted distributors” OR Personal Use Consultants to get a discount. They don’t have to do that. If you fall into this category (NOT operating a BUSINESS style operation) how much time do you expect someone that IS trying to operate a profitable business to spend on you?

I pray for all of you that you get out now, while your family finances don't take more of a hit -

and you can save your marriage from the distruction that has happed to SO many in Mary Kay.

Just listen to the NSD I-stories and see how many women are married to their original husbands. It's quite telling...

I will continue to pray for you. I'm not "being negative" although you will probably label me as such.

Why would you take the energy to point out that you are “not being negative” immediately after making three negative statements? It seems that you want to make negative generalizations but not back them up with facts. How many (percentage) NSDs are married to their original husbands? Do you know? How many (percentage) of those who have been involved with MK had their family finances devastated as a result of MK? Do you know?

I'm just speaking the truth about this MK business with a BIG warning to you all.

Considering everything you said… I am left asking, “Of what ‘truth’ are you speaking?” I really didn’t see anything in that long comment that could be construed as TRUTH based on any of the definitions of truth that I am aware of. Please elaborate.


Ok, enough from us... Thank you for your candor Dana.

What do some of those IN Mary Kay think about this?


  1. Hey Dana, here's the link to the "profiles" thread.

    Please put up your history, or "why you have a dog in this hunt". Things like: when you started MK, what was your initial inventory purchase, when you terminated and/or returned your product, etc.

  2. Well, I am very happily in no vortex, fog, or cult. In fact, I am probably one of the most down to earth, realistic directors you will ever meet. Having spent 15 years as a Corp. Accountant and a Business Financial Analyst - I am a real S/C personality type, the rah, rah,makes me uncomfortable.
    Financially speaking, I probably have one of the best money managed unit in all of Mary Kay! None of my consultants carry much debt, I don't make coopayments on my car, I have $10,000 wholesale on my shelf paid for (not financed) and have SOLD to Court of Sales 12 consecutive years and I am on target this year.

    Yes, we do have our clients calling us asking for parties, as a matter of fact, just since January I have had 7 requests (unsolicitated) for parties and 3 for facials and one to join. My parttimes have been having 2 -3 bookings a week and actually are booked thru April.

    Am I having thousand dollar weeks, every week?? Well, almost, my weekly average sales after hostess credit/discount and not including taxes is $800 - Mind you I do take time to be a director otherwise it would be much higher.

    No I don't reinvest all my profits because it isn't necessary - I just restock. I pay estimated quarterly taxes to Federal, State, and Local. I put money into my IRA, and I need to pay my personal bills and live, and I have two teenagers - I have no money tree in the back yard, and even though my hubby is mighty handsome, I married for love, not money. I don't play Mary Kay, it is my career.

    I have an incredibly hard working (selling) unit. Our focus has always been on selling the product, I don't believe in teaching recruiting until after a consultant has mastered her skin care presentation. I want her to build a good strong foundation of clients and then look at building a team. Believe it or not, you can get to a point when your client based gets so large, that recruiting can be an asset, to help you continue to provide great customer service to your customers.

    As far as front loading, I am oppossed to having a consultant start with a large inventory, I want her to get started and build her inventory as she builds her customer base and that way she can build her inventory with the products she is selling. I wish Dana would go back and read over some of my other beliefs because I don't want to bore readers with my info since most have seen it before, but only about 10% of my monthly unit production comes from new unit members, the 90% comes from working/selling consultants.

    I have been a director almost 14 years and a consultant almost 16, many of my unit members have been with me since DIQ and plan on being with me until we are just plain too old. (Even if we still look good).

    In 14 years I have only had two chargebacks (see if consultants aren't frontloaded, if the business doesn't work for them, they don't have too much product to get rid of). And one of the chargebacks -the retail she sent back was right around $200. The other one didn't want out but she was in a nasty divorce and her lawyer told her, she needed her main profession as her support and if she didn't give up Mary Kay - she could risk loosing her kids because her husband was willing to cut back his working hours to spend more time with his kids, so she didn't have a choice as she hadn't been in the Company long enough to have a proven income.

    I have with the help of my unit earned the use of 7 Company cars, I usually take the cash and not the vehicle but it is rare that I have EVER made a coop payment or short cash comp. Guess what, I didn't take the Cadillac when we qualified once because, (it was during the promotion they had) and I knew that we had never done that type of production and wasn't willing to do more than I was doing, so, we stayed a very happy money MAKING Grand prix unit. My goal is after the kids graduate, dedicating more time to my busines and taking us to a a Cadillac unit.
    to do it now, I would not be able to keep my priorites in the proper order. Balance is the key.

    What is today, the 17th??? Our production is finished, $600 from new consultants, the rest from a working unit. If we get more, great, if we don't who cares, the last day of the month, I will not be sitting by the phone and the computer, I will never dial for dollars, I will not ask my unit members to order if they don't need the product. I WILL ask them to work their business at the beginning of the month if for some reason we want to do something spectacular that month.

    We are a very proud Emerald Seminar Division, I do think I see a difference in the attitudes of other seminar areas - some don't seem to be quite as "GO Give as ours". I am very happy I am with the directors I associate with.

    I lead by example, following the golden rule, and treating others as I would like them to treat me. It has come back 10 fold.

    The directors I work with - are directors like myself, I guess there is some truth to the saying you become like the 5 people you spend most of your time with. Seems to me, that means you will probably have circles of ethical directors and circles of unethical directors. Because I have no time for a director that uses people and disgraces this Company.

    I will not deny that there are some very selfish, greedy, showy, unethical directors out there, I don't have to become like them though, I will continue to do things the right way, and continue to watch, what goes around comes around. (It may not always happen in our time (as fast as we would like it) but as I continue to grow and build one customer, one consultant at a time, I will continue to shake my head as the director, who bought her car, and then financed her unit, and then charged maintaining to do it, and then wonder why it didn't work and have to listen to her say, MK is broken, noone can make money if they are ethical. - My question, how would they know, you can't do it the wrong way for years and expect to turn it around in a couple of months and when you can't, scream fowl.

    Just because someone else couldn't do it ethically, doesn't mean it can't be done ethically.

    DDD - I am sorry you were not treated well in Mary Kay, I could probably have over 100 consultants from my unit tell you, it can be done, you can make money, you can have fun. But maybe it needs to be done right from the start.

    Well if anyone was going to have trouble sleeping tonight I probably was good for something else, boring you to sleep!!

    Lastly, friends in Mary Kay, friends out of Mary Kay, period.

    Please realize, there are yucky people everywhere, just because they join MK, doesn't make them great people.

    I love what I do, I earn great money, I have the flexibility I need, I love my unit, I love my clients, and I love what this business is without a few bad apples.

    It is funny, if everyone would just treat people as they would like people to treat them in everything, just think what a Great Place this World would be!!

    Bad things do happen to good people, how you handle them is what shows your character..Night everyone, have a facial in the morning!!

  3. I totally understand what Dana is saying. The greed I see is disgusting. There is no training in my area to book and sell, only to manipulte huge initial orders from someone who has had no experience selling.

    And I too always wondered about the divorce rate in MK. MKA herself.

    Dana, please keep posting. My objective here is to get the word out that not all units are like mk4me's. She is doing it right and I have seen so little of that personally. It's nice to know we are not alone!

  4. Proof of how clueless Mary Kay ladies are: Claims she has excellent money management, then goes on to brag that she has $10,000 wholesale inventory in her house when she's selling $400 wholesale a week. How foolish!

  5. LookingforAnswersMarch 18, 2008 at 7:21 AM


    I wish I was in your unit! There are very few Directors in my area that work the way you work and certainly none of our NSD's work like this or train their Directors to work like this.

    In fact ours teaches, work hard for 3 years and hang up your Showcases and let the business carry you then.

    And she learned that from Shirley Hutton one of the originals.

    I will comment on the original topic but I really wanted to say thank you to mk4me for doing MK the right Mary Kay herself had intended it to be.


  6. mk4me you sound a lot like my director! I firmly believe in the things you say.

    Keep up the good work.

    I am in not in MK debt, I am having a great time doing this business.

  7. It looks like we are getting some anonymous comments again.

    Your anonymity is safe even if you use a "screen name". Please come up with something that we can identify you with. It becomes confusing trying to respond to multiple "anonymous" posters.

    Either click the name/url button below and fill in a name OR simply "sign" the end of your comment with a nickname.


    P.S. Especially if you are going to post an inflammatory comment like the second anon. comment. Show a little courage and identify yourself. *note - I am NOT asking you to reveal your true identity. This shouldn't be too difficult.

  8. The divorce rate in MK? How about the divorce rate, period? I doubt MK has anything to do with that - there are plenty of women not married to their original husbands (for some of us, this is a good thing) and have never even been in MK.

    I would also imagine (because I have seen this over the years in businesses other than MK) that some husbands react badly when the wife starts a business and starts to gain some financial independence and a "life" outside of the house.

    For example, one husband showed up totally drunk at a major business function (not MK) where the poor wife had her entire downline. Not pretty. The husband would probably say that his marriage was ruined because of the business his wife started. The wife would say that the business had nothing to do with it - the marriage was in trouble way before that.

    As far as the greed goes - don't you see that in all professions? Some people are greedy and materialistic. Others are not.

    Again, and example:

    Let's say an IBC has a modest home that is completely paid for (and let's say that MK helped pay it off). Then let's also say that she becomes a Director and makes great money doing so.

    Then she is in a catch-22: If she talks about the great money she makes, but consultants see her modest house and think, "How can this woman be making so much money in MK? My house is bigger than this!" then people question how much she is "really" making (I have seen this on PT.)

    But if she buys a bigger house, she is called "materialistic" and "greedy".

    MK4ME has it right - she has a selling unit and does it the right way.

    As far as how much inventory she has - she has built that up over a number of years, it is debt-free, and it works for her! :o)

  9. I would like to hear from MK4ME. Explain the $10,000 in inventory and only selling $1600 per month. How is that financially sound? It seems excessive.

  10. I love how anytime some thing bad is said about MK (the divorce rate, in this case) pro MKers will want to look at every other business. We are not talking about other cases, we are talking about MK. Do you think that maybe with all the time spent in chasing this dream that family has been pushed to the back burner? Is it so hard to believe that MK directors and NSDs are not doing what they should in putting family before career??

  11. LookingforAnswersMarch 18, 2008 at 8:34 AM

    Unfortunately, you ladies are in truly in the pink vortex.

    There truly is NO way to do MK in the "right way."

    The system is broken.
    Yes MK can be done the right way as long as you don’t fall for the hype and recognition. If you are a broken person, then you will always be trying to fill that hole with external things, food, drugs, alcohol, sex and shopping. The system isn’t broken, the people working it are broken.
    Yes, old school training is to book, sell, recruit - working "full circle."

    How well is that working for you really?

    Are women calling you begging to hold skincare classes? Hmm?
    No they’re not calling to beg but they do call/email and ask for advice once you’ve established a relationship with them. And yes, some, not all, do want refresher facials and want to try the new colours. And if they want free products, yes they will have a party and invite their friends. It’s whatever their need is. For the ones who don’t do parties, they sure do re order products.
    I held one class and two facials last year (2007) and still ended up with almost $10K in sales just with that and reorders.
    Are you having $1000 weeks on a consistent basis? Making $400 profit with the 60/40 split?

    or are you plowing all "profits" back into the MK business either attempting to pay off a credit card or purchasing even MORE inventory?
    I’m not doing $1000 weeks because technically I’m not working...not consistently booking or holding classes. And I learned my lesson the hard way about putting my profits back into the business. I trusted what I was being told and did that. I have learned otherwise and train my team and others I come into contact with about the 60/40

    Even if you build up your selling business, you will at some point be encouraged by your Director, Sr. Director, or NSD to gouge your sales, but recruiting your best customers.

    You will be encouraged to become a Red Jacket, Team Leader, on-target for DIQ, etc.
    I encourage my customers to become part of MK. If they want to get the products at half price, I’m happy for them. It’s not about me and my commission; it’s about what’s best for the individual.

    The ONLY way you will move up in the company is recruit and frontload.
    Recruiting yes and making production yes. If you’re not recruiting enough each month to make production then no you’re not going to move up. But if you enter into DIQ and recruit 10 new people who come in with $600 w/s orders, then your month 1 production is more than done. Repeat this for every month in your MK life and you’ll have a very stable working unit. Teach each member how to sell that $600 w/s order, in fact help them sell it by doing their first appointment with them. They’re happy, to be having fun, selling product earning company prizes for actually completing the work and they attract more people to the unit and to their customer bases.

    HUGE thousands in "Production" is a requirement to move up and "win a free car" (with a co-pay by the way).
    I addressed this somewhere else in here but I’ll do it again. Teaching your unit members to do the Perfect Start and NOT to start with inventory. 10 new unit members doing $600 w/s each is $6000 production. Every month that this is repeated more unit members are added and it gets done again. The unit will also grow because the consultants will be happy and successful. They will not be burnt out by working too many hours or having a huge inventory to sell down and it will draw other people to them and the unit. Eventually, Cadillac production is achieved but it doesn’t happen overnight.
    It has nothing to do with SALES, MK rewards women because of product ordered by them or their team members.
    Again there are many people who are broken inside and crave desperately the recognition and to have success and if they can by it, they will. Until they are fixed inside they will continue to do destructive behaviour.

    You WILL learn to frontload - but you will be told that you're setting the women up for success with a full store.
    Even if you are taught to front load you can break the cycle and not do it yourself. That is what I have done. It’s like growing up with abuse, drugs, alcohol, poverty. You can break the cycle of that happening as well if you want to and if you know where to go to get help.
    Hmm... Are you really?
    Huge inventories set many up for failure so front loading is a terrible idea.

    MK is all about greed. It's a Pink Cult of greed and until you ladies realize that, you're caught up in the lie.
    There are greedy people out there and there are many in MK that are. It only takes a few bad apples to rotten the bunch. Again, my NSD has been with the company for a long time but what she teaches, I will not teach to my team. I am a black sheep and am defiant so she doesn’t like to be around me or have anything to do with me since I’m no longer one of the “big girls”.
    You'll find out soon enough when you stop ordering excessive product that is not immediately needed, just to reach a star level order - that you hear from your Director much less often.
    If you are in sales in ANY company, Verizon, SC Johnston, Miller Brewery, Nortel, RIM, Best Buy, Sears, Ford, Chev, Chrysler and so on, if you are not selling, you are out of a job. You have accounts/customers and monthly sales targets. You get bonuses if you achieve them and you get warnings if you don’t. Too many under achievements and you are out the door.
    If you stop ordering for a few months, be prepared for a guilt trip that you're not being a team player.
    If you are being guilt tripped, you’re in the wrong unit/area. We need a rating website for NSD’s and Directors like the “rateMD” website for doctors
    Then, either the pink friendship fade-out will occur, or you will get kicked to the curb with thier "required close-toed shoe."
    When you stop working at any company, the friends you made there, don’t generally last either. There are only a few people from each company that I have worked with, you actually have remained true friends. This happens everywhere not just in MK.
    They will step over you and say, "NEXT."
    Are you kidding me? Again any company out there, any corporation, if you are not doing your job and producing whatever you are to be producing, you are FIRED!!! Next is right, get human resources on the phone and set up interviews for your replacement.
    If you think my "NEXT" comment is too harsh, have you listed to Pam Shaws cassettes? Or the offical MK DIQ training cassette from early 2000, where they talk about MK being a "numbers game afterall."
    I don’t like the fact that MK people teach that it’s a numbers game. I don’t teach that. Each person is an individual. But again companies do NOT treat you any other way than a number. Look at the numbers when it comes times for layoffs. This is not unique to MK. This is business.
    I pray for all of you that you get out now, while your family finances don't take more of a hit –
    Stop praying for me....again the use of God/Religion in business is destructive and not everyone shares the same beliefs. This has to stop.

    and you can save your marriage from the distruction that has happed to SO many in Mary Kay.
    Again this falls under the category of people being broken. If you are broken, so is your marriage. If you were broken when you came into MK and then became fixed because of increased self esteem and self worth but the person you married was also broken but didn’t follow your healing path, then it’s not likely going to work. Again, divorce happens to people outside of MK. The 52% of all marriages that fail are not just MK people.

    Just listen to the NSD I-stories and see how many women are married to their original husbands. It's quite telling...
    People change. Some people become better people and some people become worse people and over time those changes can make you so far apart and unhappy. You either work to get back together or you leave. Again this happens outside of MK as well.

    I will continue to pray for you. I'm not "being negative" although you will probably label me as such.
    Stop praying for me. There’s that religious stuff again. I don’t think you’re negative. I think you’re passionate and desperate to be heard and to voice your terrible experience to everyone around you. You make valid points that were real to you in your MK experience and for others that you have talked to. And yes, what you experienced is the same as what I experienced but I have broken the cycle and made the necessary changes. I hope that one day, the “good” MK people will prevail and the people that you had and that I have will be no longer.
    I'm just speaking the truth about this MK business with a BIG warning to you all.
    You speak the truth of your experiences and of the others that experienced the same treatment and issues. I acknowledge that. The whole chicken flogging thing on PT the other day was just unbelievable to me but when I think about it, I don’t know how many time my director and my NSD flogged any consultant who came through the door in pants. Any humiliation of any kind must be stopped. Not every director or NSD is like that.

  12. Great post, looking for answers! You acknowledge the bad and don't try to sweep it under the rug. You don't make it sound like the bad directors and NSDs are the minority. (Because who's to say they are.) I appreciate that.

    And you show how it can be done right, without stripping away the validation that the victims need to hold on to. Some people were victimized by these directors and NSDs. Some people did not come into this business as unethical. Some people were used, abused, and spit out. Thank you for acknowledging that.

    I hope you are very successful in your business.

  13. LookingforAnswersMarch 18, 2008 at 8:49 AM

    My post above may be a bit confusing as I don't know how to highlight the comments made by DDD. However, just note when you're reading it, that the first part of each paragraph is actually what she said in her post.

  14. Bravo, looking for answers! Take a bow.

  15. David and Looking both did an excellent job in their responses.

    MK4ME always does a great job defending herself, but $10K in wholesale was not accumulated in one year. She's been in for 15 years. How come it seems those who have been in MK a year or less tend to be the loudest on the anti-MK front? Anyway, she's making $1600/mo profit in her sales. Since she is NOT paying a copay on her vehicle, her unit has to making its production each month. Therefore, MK4ME is getting a decent commission check on top of that $1600 each month. Also, since she doesn't have a car payment or a full car insurance payment, that's money she's NOT spending and, therefore, has to spend in other areas or to save.

    Divorce rate in MK? How about divorce rate among professional women? Many men have fragile egos in case anyone hasn't noticed. There are many many many men out there who feel very threatened and intimidated by women who are empowered. I waited a long time to get married. Before MK I was a ballet dancer. Ballet came first. It had to. Guys don't like that. As far as MK divorce rates, isn't it possible that perhaps a woman who always stayed home and was there to wait on her husband at his beck and call might have intimidated him a bit when she became more empowered through Mary Kay (or even by working outside the home in some other capacity)? Is that her fault if a husband isn't willing to adjust? It's one thing if she was lying about money which could happen; but no one knows what truly goes on in any relationship other than their own.

  16. lookingforanswers, I loved your post! Great job!

  17. Another note on divorce...I’m a little wound up over this topic now...

    Do a search on Divorce Statistics or Divorce Rates...look at the number of pages that come up.

    I actually found one hit that suggested that devout Christian's had higher divorce rates than the blue states (being Canadian, I had to figure out what blue states meant).

    I found another link to a Forbes article that I read last year and it speaks about Careers and Divorce.

    Here's a site on Divorce Statistics. It’s not laid out very well and some of the links don’t work but it has quite a bit of information.

    Is there an industry where divorce rates are higher? I don’t know. I’m looking for studies on that.

    All this to say, that divorce happens for many reasons, not just to MK families.

  18. Okay, I don't suggestion anyone carry the inventory I have -unless you move the product like I do. For those that are questioning, I do sell as I said avg $3000 monthly, average was the wrong word.... That is the low amount, I sell between $3000 - $6000 a month.

    My clients use, all lines, I sell from skin care to perfumes, body care, etc.... When you are carrying all lines and moving alot, I don't have more than I need of any item. Right now, I have almost NONE of the platinum lipsticks left, the few I have are colors that they company discontinued that I know some of my clients are still going to want. I have 3 custom compacts, 2 foundation compacts, and one color compact left. That's it and the new ones are just coming out. I guarentee you display filled, they will be sold before the end of the month and I will have only the new line.

    Inventory management is very important, the Company gives us plenty of lead time when they ae changing or discontinuing an item for us to plan accordingly unless some one overstocks. You should stock what you sell.

    I believe some consultants can work very successfully with small inventory levers, especially if they really on sell skin care. It all depends on the individuals situation. No two are alike.

    (thanks shades)

    As far as my marriage, my hubby works third shift. We have kids, my background is financial (typically day job) - if it weren't for Mk, I would never be seeing my husband as I would be leaving before he got home. He would be sleeping when I got home. No one would be home for the kids before school or afterschool and chances are or marriage wouldn't be in great shape because we would never have anytime together in the conventional world.

    Mary Kay doesn't cause divorces, people do. Just like guns don't kill people, it takes a person to pull the trigger.

    I do wish I could go around a slap those that are using and abusing people unfortantely I can't. It disgusts me horrilbe, but that person will be taking advantage in and out of Mary Kay.

    I have several people that have approached me that had been in Mary Kay had a bad experience, ended up as a customer of mine (I don't pressure or stalk) and will rejoin Mary Kay because of they are comfortable in my unit. If one is in a unit that they feel don't line up with their values, the Comapany has given them on out. If you don't order for a year, you can rejoin anywhere you want. So people have a choice if they want to be a part of Mary Kay and don't want to be with people that don't want what is best for the consultant.


    Guess what, it can be done right and ethically. Whether you like it or not.

    People cheat on their taxes all the time, it doesn't make it right.

    People take supplies from their places of employment, it doesn't make it right.

    People cheat on tests, it doesn't make it right.

    We are flawed humans, we will make mistakes, but there is a big difference between making a mistake a make a choice to do wrong.

    I really wanted to try to show a side of Mary Kay many of you maybe didn't get to see. Thanks for those who supported me and for those of you who attacked me, I didn't critize you, I didn't accuse you of being lazy, etc... this business will work for some and not for others, I can teach a consultant skin care, color, etc... but if someone isn't naturally a "people" person, there isn't always something to change that. I have watched a few consultants do everything right, but for some reason - people just didn't seem to mesh with them. So Mary Kay just didn't work for them.

    You can disagree with me, but geez louise, be nice about it.

    PS I have my Spring Open house Friday and Saturday so.... I will post my total after that.


    I am busy, I have a life, kids, pets, etc... I do not have time to not have the product available. I can sell 20 cleansers in one week. Should I make some people wait?? I moved four years ago about 35 miles away. My clients were very use to open houses or just being able to stop by my home. Since I am so far away now 4 times a year, I bring my open house to them. I do a two day open house and send out invites. My clients turn out and I service loads of clients in that two day span. They come to me, we laugh, catch up, visit, snack, and stock up. They love it and I love it.
    No shipping charges no driving around making delieveries, (this saves me loads of money because they leave with their products,
    since I left those two days have sales between $2000.00-$5,000 (after specials and discounts).
    I couldn't do this without the inventory I have.

    Having inventory isn't bad if you are moving it. The amount works for me because of my lifestyle.

    {} LR said...
    I would like to hear from MK4ME. Explain the $10,000 in inventory and only selling $1600 per month.{}

    Excuse me??? I wrote
    my weekly average sales after hostess credit/discount and not including taxes is $800 - Mind you I do take time to be a director

    even with Mary Kay Math $800 x 4 is = $3,200 and I checked it on the calculator to make sure.

  19. anti-MKer,

    The problem of looking at statistics in a vacuum is that they don't tell the whole story. As a professor once told me, "Statistically speaking, everyone who ate pickles in the year 1850 is dead. Ergo, you could assume the pickles killed them, but you would be wrong."

    Could NSD's and such be putting MK before family? Of course. I am sure some do. However, if they were not in MK, they might find another career to do the same thing with.

    The company was founded on God first, Family second, Career third. If some people forget that, then that is no one's fault but their own, IMHO.

    Let me reiterate that I say this as a lowly IBC. But if I choose to move up the ladder (and that is a CHOICE), it will be up to ME to keep my priorities straight, not MKC's.

  20. MK4ME -

    ROTFL! Sorry, I didn't catch that math error. Good job! You ROCK!

  21. looking... excellent post...

    I am more fortunate than you were as I came from a National area that taught selling, building clients, building inventory, then building your team. My Senior went national about 3 or so years ago, she still does classes!!

    And if she runs an area challenge to do a 10 show week, she is in the field with us doing one.

    and I agree with the chicken, skunk stuff is awful. If you live by "treat others as you want to be treated" - this would never be done. Never humilate or embarrass another person.

    And there is a Big Difference between discussing a problem and being negative, the stick your head in the sand and pretend nothing bad happens is b.s.

    and I had to laugh because when I post on dug I use mk4me b.s. -
    the b.s. stands for black sheep!!

    I pray that there are more directors like myself than the ones we read about, I believe there is but I will continue to do my part to keep the information available by posting and training to help consultants do this business right and not be abused.
    If I walk away from something like this, it would be like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Take the good!

    We can make a difference, one step at a time.

  22. You will excuse me if I took that $800 to be retail. MKers are always tring to make their sales look better. Somewhere else on this blog you put your sells at $3000 per month retail. That's where I got that number.

  23. lr
    {{MKers are always tring to make their sales look better. }}

    (Snarky) you anti-mkers really do love to stereotyping, don't ya??

    I sell alot of product, just deal with it! :)

    and... my products are stored on two bookcases in my office. No where else...

    12 1/2 straight years Court of Sales, I'd better be selling or I would look like the warehouse at MK Corporate.

    by the way..
    **Warning-sarcastic comment)
    With the way you anti mkers, will take the time to read and pick apart a posting by an anonymous person on a blog.... too bad you didn't use that ability while you were in Mary Kay, maybe you wouldn't have gotten yourself where you are now.

    P.S. I do wish Mary Kay would allow dress pants and I am so happy that opened toed shoes are acceptable, but you will all thank me that I have chosen to continue to wear the CONTROL TOP pantyhose, it helps reduce the jiggling caused by sitting at the computer blogging instead of out doing skin care class or snowmobiling or facials, or playing basket ball w/kids, or delivering product, or going motorcycle riding, or conducting my unit meeting, or teaching my 16 year old to drive.
    Oh, and I bowled a 225 the other night for my highest series (524) ever, but I guess to be successful in Mary Kay, you can't have a life.

  24. Can everyone just stick to THEIR own story and THEIR own experience without saying that what they experienced is or will be the same for everyone else?

    Tempers flair when someone says that ALL people do a certain thing. But in reality, noobody does anyting ALL the time.

    For instance Lr says "Mkers are always trying to make thier sales look better.." This is not true.

    Must David go over the rules again?

    This is not PT where you get to call people foolish and insult thier character.

    I think it is great of David and Shay to want a commentator who is anti mk because then it will truely be a balanced board. If anything it will teach consultants how NOT to behave. But sweeping genralizations are wrong.

    You can have your feelings validated without insulting someone else.

    For goodness sakes, noone is saying that unethical things are not happening in MK. I have always admitted that there are changes that need to be made and I am very vocal about my promk beliefs.

    But if we, as promk, can admit that these things are going on, why is it so hard for those that are against MK to consider that the opposite is true?

    We have NEVER said that everyone is having just a wonderful time in MK. So why is it ok for some of you in anti MK to say that everyone is having a negative expereince? Everyone is NOT having the same horrible experience. Everyone is NOT going into debt. Everyone is NOT being bullied by a director or forced into large orders. Everyone is NOT getting divorced or having family problems due to involvement with MaryKay. I find that assumption just a bit overboard.

    Because some of you are so focused on the bad in MK, maybe you cant see the similarites in other circumstances. I submit that it is not MK that causes divorce, but it would make more sense to look at the corratlation between those that are extremly successful and divorce. I say this in relation to the comment about the divorce amoungst the NSD's. These women are hugely successful and in high demand. But look at any other person in a high profile, demanding life. You can look anywhere from entertainment to politics and you will see a high divorce rate. Is it Mary Kay or just the demands of that type of life?

    Just because someone still loves doing this business does not mean that they are "sweeping the bad things under the rug", nor does it mean that they are in a pink fog, or cult. It just means that they are not going to let the bad things stop them. It could just possibley mean that they are getting out of this business what they want from it and that is ok. So instead of hoping that they will one day "wake up" and see MK as an antimker sees it, why not just be happy for them and wish them continued success? Hoping that we all come of the pink fog implies that we are having a horrible bad experience. Once again, please dont assume that your experience will be mine.

    Dont say you will pray for me, and then in the same breath critize other consultants for playing the "religion" card.

    As far as women calling and begging me to hold skincare classes..well it has happened to me. But it doesnt happen regularly, but guess what, its not supposed to. I was taught to make it happen for myself. Customers are not going to fall out of the sky. I do not have that expectation so I am not disappointed that it does not regularly happen. When it does its just a bonus and I treat it as such. I dont teach my team members to expect women to chase them down for product. I was taught to create situations and opportunites for myself to move this product, much like mk4me does with her open houses. Guess works for me.

    I believe that those of us who are satisfied with this business and believe in the ethical way of making it work, were given from the beginning a very realistic view of what to expect from this business. Those that are bitter and angry about this business, IMO were taught the wrong way from the beginning and were set up to fail by a director who lied to them about what to expect from this business and how to make it work. Since the experience they had is the only experience they know , they think it is the same everywhere. When they hear someone who is doing it different and correctly they think its a lie or an exaggeration. That's unfortunate

    Sorry for the rant David, I am not trying to insult anyone, but we should at least play fair

  25. another interesting fact, I started with $180 wholesale, personal use. I built my inventory with my client base, and have liked the level I have now and have operate from this level for about the past 3 years.

  26. "all" , come on now, the majority of us are women, do you believe
    "one size fits all"????


  27. Yes, my wife buys "one size fits all" pantyhose ... NOT!

    And do you know how hard it is to find size 10 1/2 or 11 women's shoes. My wife wishes she had "normal" size 7 or 8 feet.

  28. mkhonesty, you ain't lying, my mom wears 11 Narrow - that poor women has to pay top dollar to get shoes that look good and fit right!!

  29. Try wearing a size 4 1/2 and finding a high heel. All I can get is little girl shoes! Unless the store is willing to let go of the display, then I can take home a 5.

  30. mk4me --

    I want to be in your unit! And being "successful" depends on what your goals are. Mine are very realistic for me if I work part time--I have a full time JOB too.

    Everyone in our group (not yet a unit) except our team leader works another JOB. Our SD set a weekly goal for our group that was over what most of us want to do - she's looking at NSD. The few of us who were 'top dogs' have backed up to review our personal goals.

  31. angelet -
    I emailed mkshay some booking idea and asked her to forward them to you. I hope some of them help you out. If I ever see a cute pair - I will have to grab them for you!

    thank you very much for kind words, believe me, I am not alone, I am just sorry that so many have had bad experiences with others. You are very smart - set your goals and don't let someone reset them. Asking everybody to pitch in and roll up there sleeves and maybe work a little extra for a month or two is very different than starting to set goals for people.
    Personally, I think trying to force people to work is going to backfire. People wanting to work won't.

    I would give someone the shirt of my back, but try maniputlating me into doing something that has no benefit to me, well I will do the opposite just to prove, I can think for myself - can you tell I am a Taurus?? haha
    Love the line don't p*ss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You need something ask me straight up, if I can do it I will, if I have given you my word, you can take it to the bank.

    If you like what you do continue to do what you want to do.

    I guess in the long run,could you imagine making a run for NIQ, all your units (or at least they use to have to- haven't double checked since that is no an immediate goal for me) must do a certain amount of production during the NIQ phase, couldn't you just see it if a Future National had mistreated her people and the last month several units intentional did not make production?? They say what goes around comes around... Treat people right, you may need them some day. Or there is another saying that comes to mind... (from my Corporate days) watch out who you step on climbing the ladder, because you just might have to pass them on the way back down.
    rural, please stay true to yourself, got questions you ask here, we will have your back.

  32. $10,000 w/s inventory.

    Low average weekly sales, $800 r/t.

    That would be $400 w/s x 4 wks = $1,600 w/s sold each month. EXLUDING hostess gifts, credits.

    $10,000 w/s inventory is really only 6 months, or less, of product.

    $6,000 r/t monthly sales is $3,000 w/s. In this case, $10,000 w/s is only 3 1/3 months worth of product.

    It is my opinion, based on MK4Me's actual sales, and her very high retail sales open houses, that $10,000 w/s inventory is on the low side for MK4Me specifically.

    You Go Girl! Keep on sellin'!

  33. Please understand when I am sharing the info on my sales and figures, it is just to show if you do this business right and build it, treat people right, it will work. I feel very blessed to have the lifestyle I have. I have met some incrediblly wonderful people that probably would not have come into my life under different circumstances. I have been able to give back to the community by doing things at Women's shelters, retirement homes, with Look Good Feel Good programs, and fundraising for different organizations. It is so wonderful to be able to give without looking for a return.

    We aren't wealthy ($$) but we are comfortable and wealthy in so many other ways.

    I love what I do so much that I do wish others could have the wonderful experience and opportunity that I have had. And it does anger me when the ones that choose to do it wrong, give us such a bad name.

    (rebecca - thank you)

  34. Notice the difference between mk4me and consultant "Tara", who asked Dave Ramsey what she should do and how much inventory she should have.

    Tara has been a consultant since Aug 2007, has $4700 on a credit card with about $3600W in inventory, and her sales appear to be about $300 MSRP/month.

    mk4me has been a consultant for 16 yrs, has no debt to manage with $10,000W in inventory, and her sales are $3,200+ per month.

    I bet anyone a powdered doughnut that mk4me has customers who call her and order 2 or 3 of a single item at one time. Things that 99% of new consultants wouldn't imagine carrying on their shelves, like Classic Basic or Extra Emollient Night Cream.

    Classic manufacturing inventory management saysa that you should "turn" your inventory at least 6 times year, or every two months. The problem with that thumbrule is that it was written on the basis of a high-volume widget manufacturer with forecastable demand, not a company with a lot of special-order customers.

    With the latter, the company (consultant) has to make a decision regarding the "level of service". Is it acceptable to the customer to wait for delivery, even as little as a week? Do the customers give a week's notice before they run out, or do they call up the day that they're trying to turn a foundation tube into a two-dimensional shape?

    Those are the basic questions a consultant (and a selling director) has to make. A flat assumption that $10,000W of inventory is as stereotypical as all democrats are socialists and all republicans are militaristic fascists. ("War Kittens?!?")

  35. mk4me - Thank you so much! (Now I REALLY want to join your unit! LOL)

    mkhonesty - your discussion of inventory options based on the consultant is so true and so well written!

    Thank you all!

  36. mkhonesty, go get your powdered doughnut take 2 even- ie: one of my reorders today, (and no I can't explain it, she knows she will have her products same day or next day) - she doesn't have to stock up (but she does like having products in her different bathrooms and their RV.
    2 F2 creamy cleanser, 4 F1 Hydrating Freshners, 2 Balancing Moisturizer, and 4 hand creams. - All set with all other products at this time - and had a facial this morning at my home $199.95

  37. Thanks to everyone offering their help on this thread and the others. I spoke to my director and she is getting me some info today. I told her about this site and she wants to do all she can to help with my first bookings. Thanks!!

  38. Mmmm ... doughnuts

  39. One thing that concerns me is what do you do if you sign on with a director that definitely doesn't suit your needs or goals? If you run in with a director or a team that uses corrupt and totally inappropriate methods, is there a way to switch teams and find one that is a healthy/honest one? Since that seems to be a big issue with anti-mkers, it might be worth going through the options for avoiding those horrible experiences, too. Unless I've missed them already having been laid out. :)

  40. LookingforAnswersMarch 19, 2008 at 5:42 PM

    Martha Mou, if you have found yourself in with a corrupt unit, you can put your complaint in writing to MKC or don’t order anything for a year and go inactive (make sure your recruiter/director is not placing orders in your name). After that year is up, you can sign up again with a more suitable director.

  41. Martha Mou, I second what LookingforAnswers said. In addition, if you have a team of your own and don't want to become inactive and lose your team another option for you is to find a different director to meet with. You can adopt into any unit. Yes, you would technically still be a part of the original unit, but it can definitely be beneficial to find an adoptee you mesh with to keep yourself happy and to keep your team. Just wanted to throw the alternative out there. ;)

  42. LookingforAnswersMarch 19, 2008 at 7:00 PM

    Good one Shades! I forgot about the Adoptee program. A perfect alternative!

  43. The only problem with Shades' adoptee answer is that typically a consultant is not supposed to adopt into another director's unit if her real director has meetings w/i 50 miles of the consultant. This was what my wife was taught, although I am sure that it is nowhere in writing. The common sense purpose is to keep local consultants from flocking to a "better" director's meeting. (Better defined as a car-driver, more organized, a better trainer, or just "more fun".)

    If the director is truly unethical, then definitely report the person in writing to MK. If you feel that you were deceived in the process of signing an agreement with that director, then write a letter to MK and see what they say.

    I'm not talking about a director that is teaching selling/booking techniques that some people think are unethical, when they are part and parcel of any salesman's vocabulary. If you are not sure about what the director is doing, then call Legal.

    If a consultant and a director have a "communication problem" (I won't use the word "simple", because it never is.), then I suggest that the consultant and director sit down over a cup of coffe in a public place. (Public places tend to force people to keep a civil tone with each other.) The director may have a perfectly logical reason to what she is doing, how she is running the meeting, or what she is expecting from her consultants. (There's a new thread on dress code, which has always been a problem with a vocal minority of consultants.)

    It could be just a personality difference between the consultant and the director. It may sound trite, but that is something that the director is going to have to learn to work with. There are CD's from MK and oodles of books on the subject. It's not something particular to MK, but is found in every business environment. The big difference between MK and some corporate office is that the consultant doesn't have to learn to work with the director's style, while the employee often must accomodate the boss' style if he/she ever expects to advance or even stay with the company.

    There are some directors who will go the route of, "this is my unit and my meeting. If you want to do things your way, then maybe you need to become a director and have your own meeting." In general, I think that this is a poor choice because it comes across as either petulant or dictatorial. That said, my wife had to have a sit-down with an adoptee consultant who came in 30 minutes late to a meeting, just as that week's Queen of Retail was being recognized, and then threw a fit. The late adoptee had a slightly higher retail week, but because she was late, the WAS's had already been reviewed and the Queen determined.

  44. There is a very unethical director who lives in a neighboring town. Her offspring director left MK and she absorbed the unit. Her offspring didn't like her. The offspring became a director to get away from her. The offspring (from Ruby Division) collaborated with our unit (Emerald) rather than work with her senior.
    Her unit was devastated when they had to be with the senior unit. My friend wanted to continue attending our meetings, but the senior gave her the 25 mile rule line.
    My friend has sat out for a year and will sign again with my director's senior.
    I asked around some other directors and none could verify that the 25/50 whatever mile rule is a fact.
    I say, if you want to adopt, adopt. The director you don't like still gets paid if you're working.

  45. LookingforAnswersMarch 20, 2008 at 4:24 AM

    I would call the company on that 25/50 mile rule. No offense mkhonesty, but even though that's what your wife was taught, doesn't mean it's correct. We've seen that happen all too much.

    A type of thing sounds like it would be good to have but for MK Directors and above so that new people coming in could choose the unit they'd like to work with.

    I suspect mk4me would make it to NSD in no time by the sounds of the way she works.


  46. I think if you like the person recruiting you, stick with the unit. If you aren't crazy about the director, it may be more tolerable if you have other people you can connect with. I just feel for those who really feel stuck in their businesses and are held back because they aren't getting the most from their unit meeting. They may benefit so much more somwhere else. IMO, a happy consultant is a working consultant, but she needs to be in the right environment.

  47. As I stated, I don't believe that there is a 50 mile rule, guideline or whatever in writing.

    Riddle me this, looking foranswers and Shades. What do you recommend when a recruiter does/doesn't like her director, but her new team member is the opposite. (I'm not talking about ethicality. I'm talking about communication & personality mismatches.)

    If the recruiter's long term plan includes directorship, how does she learn to work with her team?

    The next layer down: how does a consultant learn to work with a customer who is not "her style"?

  48. If I have a team member who doesn't get along with my director (and I have), I work with her and I would be fine with her having an adoptee unit. What I plan to do when my team grows to at least 3, is to hold coffees or something of that nature maybe once or twice a month with just my personal team members. It's not impossible to grow in the business if your team is spread out or attending different meetings. In fact, if we are attending different meetings, we would each have more info to bring to the table. It would be idea sharing.
    I'm always available to my team. They know they can ask me anything and they know how to reach me. I also know how to reach them. ;)

  49. How much contact do you actually have to have with your director? I guess that's a big question I would have, too. If I signed on at this point, I would be under my friend's director since she's the one that would recruit me and she is over 100 miles away. So whether I really liked the director or not, I wouldn't ever see her, but how much contact is necessary to have with a director? Because if there really isn't a big requirement on contact time, I would almost say that if you don't get along with a director, just lessen your contact with her. I'm hoping at this point that my friend's director is a good one, though, simply because I haven't heard anything otherwise yet. I just need to know my options in case things go squirrelly.

    If I found a severe ethical problem, though, I would definitely report her to MK for the simple fact that I don't want my sales to be profiting someone who's a bit shady.

  50. Mou--how much contact we have with our directors will vary from consultant to consultant. Consultants who are working toward big goals like car qualification or DIQ will most likely be in more contact with the director than a consultant who is working this as a hobby.
    Personally, I see my director at our weekly meetings and we touch base via email a couple times a week. When I am trying to move up or need help with some goals, she and I will schedule a time to get together for coffee or something to discuss my goals. I like my director very much so I enjoy spending time with her outside of regular events. Not everyone feels this way about their director so they may try to have much less contact.
    Sorry my answer is so vague, but if you think you may clash with your director, your contact doesn't have to be constant. Especially if she is 100 miles away, I would think you would have an adopted unit and you may bond well with the adoptive director. Maybe you'll like both and then you have a bonus--two directors you can work with! ;)

  51. How hilarious that when someone points out how stupid it is to have $10k wholesale on the shelf when selling $400 wholesale a week... suddenly the figure changes and she's selling twice that. $400 was cited as the average, but now suddenly that's the low end and she really swells $800 wholesale. And you get upset when we say MK ladies lie? Well you just keep proving us right.

  52. How hilarious that when someone points out how stupid it is to have $10k wholesale on the shelf when selling $400 wholesale a week... suddenly the figure changes and she's selling twice that. $400 was cited as the average, but now suddenly that's the low end and she really sells $800 wholesale. And you get upset when we say MK ladies lie? Well you just keep proving us right.

  53. anon, I am sorry I upset you so much. I try to explain things in depth, not to try to get you to rejoin or love Mk but so you can see it can be done right and you can make very good money. I said (low end) $800 retail a week, $800 x 4 = $3200 RETAIL a month, please tell me when I do my open houses and move between $2000 - $4000 in a two day span and everyone leaves with their product, from all lines, fragrances, mens' line, body care, etc.. what you would suggest I do? Find Rebecca's breakdown, she did an excellent analysis) you didn't prove us wrong, you proved us right, I quoted what I have in inventory at wholesale, I quoted what I sold at retail.

    Once again, I emphasis, I do not think it is wise for the majority to carry any where close to the inventory I have-unless you operate the way I do.

    looking, thank you for much for your kind words, National is a long term goal, but I will not even begin working to that for another two years because of my kiddos in high school. But if we look back over Mary Kay history, the journey to National wasn't done fast, it was done steady and strong. I intend on staying true to myself and to do it the right way. I will not sacrifice or use people to acheive my goal. If it is meant to be, it will be.

  54. By the way, if you can take advantage of the Company's specials, some of my inventory hasn't been purchased but earned. I sell alot of skin care so when the Company offered the special on the Miracles sets, guess what, I took advantage of it. I have no N/D sets from that purchase left and about 6 c/o sets. I separated some of the "sets'' and sold some pieces individuallly. follow me here, if I had purchased them individually, it would have been $100 Retail, purchasing them as a set it was $90, so there is an additional $10 retial I was able to earn in addition to the fact that I received 34 Firming Eye Creams FREE. Retail value??
    $1020 - are you reading that, $1020 now, if you don't sell them, that doesn't mean much. But I do. And the majority of them are sold and they were sold at retail. That is 100% PROFIT!!

    I have no need to place less than a $400 WHOLESALE order so I always get free product with my orders, sold at retail = (100% profit).

    I have come to understand that because of my personality type and background that money management and inventory conrol are very easy for me and that for others it is a very challenging issue. I do believe directors should be encouraged to understand accounting princples. Profit and loss statements, balance sheets, and yes you do get to take expenses but you must pay for the expenses. So you shouldn't just spend money, saying, oh, it's a business expense-I'll just write it off. We all must be smart with our money. None of use has a magic money tree!

  55. okay, one last comment then I will stop my fingers and go get some other stuff done..

    mou, another aspect on how much contact you will have with your director beside how much you want to do in your business will depend on the type of person you are.
    Some people are self motivated and will study and do the work with very little outside assistance almost like a correspondence course. Others will need a "teacher" type learning environment.

    There are so many different factors that enter into some of your questions that it isn't that they aren't being answered, because there are so many variables, that without all the individual pieces there isn't one right answer.

    I lived 8 hours away from my director and recruiter. My first adopted director, was not go-give, it was very clear, I was not in her unit, I was not making her money, and she didn't have the time for me. It was my business, I wanted it to work so I did the work. It wasn't about the recognition for me or the rah rah - so it didn't make that much of a difference for me. I read my Applause Magazines, the product guides, my consultant workbooks, listened to (tapes) haha giving away me age. And booked, sold, booked, sold, and then started building a team. I did team meetings and trained my team.

    When I got close to DIQ, I did find another adoptee director and she was/is wonderful. When I became a director and thanked my adoptee director and my director (now my national) at my debut, both of them said, it wasn't us, you didn't need us at all.

    My National and I have a deal, she can call me whenever she wants, if she doesn't hear from me though she is not to worry. Go on the assumption that no news is good news. If I NEED her, I will reach out. So from the very beginning I have had very little actual contact with my "uppers".

    I have some unit members that I have alot of contact with and I have others that I don't.

    I do suggest everyone take time learn about the different personality types, (the DISC) model is wonderful. It really opens one's eyes on how different people are/think and how misunderstandings can happen.

    Because of my personality type, before understanding the differences -a "D" personality type could really rub me wrong, I thought an "I" was a nut case.
    But after learning more about the differences, I look at things very differenty.

    Come on gang, I was a Corp. Accountant/Financial Anyalyst for 15 years, I sat in a office with my spreadsheets and calculator. Let's face it, I wasn't the "life of the party". I am a peace maker, don't like conflict and everthing should balance out. Some "I"'s would probably fall asleep at my meetings.


  56. Snarky Anonymous needs reading glasses and/or a calculator. It has been posted at least 3 times now that MK4Me's RETAIL each week is $800. That's $400 PROFIT each week. $800 x 4 is $3200 RETAIL and half of that is $1600 PROFIT each month. She has $10K wholesale ($20K retail) on her shelves. If she is selling $3200/mo she would sell $20K in 6 months easily (6x3200=$19,200). Rather than have an empty store, she has a stocked store with rotating inventory--just like when you go to the mall. And she BUILT THIS over 15 years. She didn't go out and order $10K overnight. She even said she started with $180 w/s 15 years ago when she started MK. Does it make any more sense now???

  57. it does not matter how many times you explain it. Those that are critical will still find something wrong with it. I understand and think the way mk4me runs her business is perfectly logical. But others dont see it that way because they cant imagine it happening without her carrying some huge debt and they cant imagine moving that much product. She has explained it over and over and Pinked off has taken the explaination even further. But I am sure someone will have a bone to pick.
    I say just keep doing what you do mk4me. You are doing great.

  58. $10k wholesale on the shelf when selling that little is just plain stupid.

  59. anon, I will never get you to change your view and that is fine, but I have told you I do sell all lines, all colors from ivory to bronze - move large quantities in short periods of time -
    just to get an idea, add up the cost of one of every product in the line (just one) include all shades, formulas, etc... ( I have alot of the classic basic customers and see what that totals. It is very interesting. I have a very widespread customer base. Lightest ivory to darkest bronze, magenta lipstick wearers to mocha freezers, men, perfumes, etc...

    You may continue to call me stupid, but I guess I will just keep laughing all the way to the bank! And my customers are loyal, they know I will always have what they need, no wait. And I am making money, and you are not in MK anymore or in and not making money so maybe you should remember when you point a finger a someone there are three pointing back at you.

    I managed to make this business work without frontloading or buying product I don't sell- I don't have to buy production, and I don't order what I don't need.
    Just seems logical to me!

    Oh, and selling so little ($3000-$6000) monthly is little to you, please share with us how much you were selling monthly when you were selling??

    And if I were asked what my best month ever was - (three) Decembers ago - it was just below $10,000).

    Have a great evening!!

  60. mk4me -

    You keep on doing things the way you are doing. It works for you and you are making money. :D

    Anonymous haters are just.....cowardly. Don't let it get you down.

  61. mkshay, this post and for real I am out the door anon is not getting me dowm - in fact quite the opposite. This site is suppose to be a balanced view of MK. We are going to learn from the negative what not to do and from the posetive how to make it work. I have given examples, mkhonesty, Rebecca, looking, (sorry if I missed anyone) gave further detail explanations on how this works and why (they did an analysis and breakdown with the pertinent information) to do it with.

    Anon - you could do so much good for the "other side" by instead of running in here sticking your tongue out at me and calling me stupid - you gave us the scenarios on how it would be more effect for me to opeate differently without compromising my sales.

    You need to show all of us- why it is stupid. You have your chance - step up to the plate and give some scenarios (based on my information) on how I should be doing it to make more profit.

    I am open to see what you have to offer up!

    I think everyone else would enjoy it too!

    I have a few more things I can add about how I operate my business but now I am running to pick up my daughter and we are going to set up for the open house and the get some groceries, cuz the guys are looking forward to baching it the next two days.

    I will add them when I get back and I will be waiting for your very valuable input. Please note it will help no one, in or out of MK if you come back and simply say, It is stupied because I say so! You have been

  62. Perhaps Anon thinks it is stupid because Anon was never so successful as to know what it takes to be prepared to sell $3200/mo. on average.

    MK4ME, you'd come up short on one of your $6000 months if you had any less!

    Who is stupid?

  63. RE: Directors we may not get along with so well.....

    Here are some suggestions that all may find helpful re: Directors:

    Don't expect perfection from the director. You'll just make yourself and the director crazy.

    Celebrate and enjoy the differences in people. It'd be really dull if everyone were the same.

    Remember you are an INDEPENDENT MK Beauty Consultant. And (listen close to this one...) so is the director. !! There WILL BE things that the two of you will do differently. Some things the director loves, but you hate; things you love, but she hates. Both are okay.

    Perhaps the most important suggestion I have regarding the consultant/director relationship: Keep It Simple, Sweetie. It really is a simple relationship, don't complicate it. And don't expect it to be perfect.

  64. Hey all, back from getting everything ready for the weekend. I am so excited.

    Now another point about my open houses. I go in a set everything pretty as can be, have snacks, punch, door prize drawings, secret specials if you attend. But since I am going to be there any way, all my unit members can invite their clients to attend. They don't have to run the same hours I do, one usually just does 2:00 - 4:00 on Saturday. Now, they get to look at all the display and product info and then they place their order with their consultant. So it is a no work situation for them and most of them do not have the product to set up the types of displays I have. It is so neat to see a consultant bring first time guests and hearing their wow factor. And as hard as they try, I can always see the little twinkle in the consultant's eyes when the client starts placing her order. And it is great getting to know my unit members clients. And they like meeting me because their consultant has talked about my director, mk4me.

    If you have discontinued product, we can even trade if one of our clients wants a vintage product from another's discontinued basket. Another great help for all us. Becasue this helps all of us move the discontinued items.

    Friday night we are doing a MK Bingo for small prizes and then I am doing a Magic Mineral Makeover on a Model and all guests are getting a sample of the new mineral look color cards.

    We will then take a break for our snack attack and the chocolate fountain, and then if there is anyone that would like to hear about the Company we just go to a corner of the room. But guests can keep snacking, eating, and socializing, they really only join me if they are truly interested in hearing more about the Company.

    Another thing, I have never not lent a product to a consultant in need as long as she replaces the product as soon as she orders. (in a timely manner) - if I operate from a bare minimum there is no way I would be able to help in this way because I wouldn't take a chance on not having what I needed for my clients because I wanted to help a unit member.

    I need to emphasize.....they do not abuse this situation. If they really need something they will borrow it and our typical understand is it will be replace within a couple of weeks. And it is never more than a piece or two.

    Then after everyone is gone, we all get in our tear down, clean up clothes and have wine/cheese and crackers.
    - Behind clothes doors.

  65. mk4me, you are awesome!

  66. Hi everyone, what an awesome day. The sun was shinging and had a lot of social fun time with consultants and clients.

    Day one sales total not including taxes
    were $2034.00 (retail).
    (all products in clients hands-no deliveries or shipping to do)

    Not bad, was a little worried as I had never done my Spring Open House on Easter Weekend.

    It was so much fun and our model looked great.

  67. LookingforAnswersMarch 22, 2008 at 5:19 AM

    AWESOME!!! Congrats! I have never thought of a Spring Open House but it sounds like it might be a good idea!


  68. Hey
    That was great reading. I began MK year ago and found it easy to sell as long as I put in the hours. After giving my cousin a sample of the micro dermabrasion she rang me and said "Kym why are you selling the stuff? check out the ingredients on the net" i did and I was horrified they were so toxic. Anyone that sells MK please google the ingredients and if you have any conscience at all you wouldn't sell it. Even the botanicals are toxic. There are heaps of other companies that sell safer products.
    Happy googling

  69. Kym--what ingredients are you referring to? The only ingredient I currently have a problem with is the use of talc in the mineral products. I have emailed the company and may do it again soon.
    And were you not aware at all that ALL ingredients are listed on the Mary Kay InTouch website: You don't have to google the ingredients. They are provided for us by the company. ;)

  70. Just a note on this ingredient thing: Mary Kay, Inc. is registered with the FDA. All of its products have to be approved by the FDA in order to go on the market.

  71. And that's all fine and good, Shades, but how many times has the FDA been wrong? I really love MK skin care. The mineral powder is really awful, though. I coughed so much trying to use it! And maybe the other brands are the same way. I don't know. I only used Bare Minerals before MK. But I returned mine and went back to Bare Minerals. When my customers ask me about it, I hedge. I dont' want to tell them I hate it, but I won't lie, either. I try to stick to only selling the skin care.

  72. Hello all, I hope everyone had a very Beautiful Easter. -We did-

    Anyway, just to wrap up my Spring Open House, total for Day 2 was $850 Retail. So the 2-day total was just shy of $3000 retail. I know this week will be crazy too because I will get the calls and emails that say "I really wanted to attend but this came up, may I still place my ord

    One of my clients ended up spending about 1 1/2 hours with us, watching and visiting and wanted information, and wants to talk after she has a chance to look the info over, so I may have a team member too.

    All and all, I am pleased because knowing it was a Holiday weekend, I wasn't sure it would be smart.

    (I did have to borrow 2 age-fighting n/d moisturizers from one of my unit members and I traded a couple of discontinued eye shadows that my clients wanted and I was out of, - but aside from that all products were delivered.) So that worked, my clients got what they wanted and my unit members moved the former shape eyeshadows and I traded for the new minerals. So everyone was happy!

  73. I don't know how many times the FDA has been wrong, Eversleigh. Do you?

  74. LookingforAnswersMarch 24, 2008 at 6:02 AM

    mk4me - That's just amazing!! I'm going to have to give that a go.


  75. I am sure we have all seen the commercials where a drug has been approved and then someone dies from it. Ortho patch is the first that comes to mind.

    I am not a scientist, but I have had ALOT of problems with the mineral powder, more than with the loose powder, so it isn't the finest of the powder, itself, it must be something in it. And since so many other companies that make mineral foundations are so adament of the "no talc" rule, I tend to agree with them that it's a no-no. So much research has been done on this by all the other companies. And that research has been out for years. I just don't understand MKC's use of talc when all the other "big dogs" in the mineral foundation scene don't use it.

    I'm not trying to make a big deal out of this. I have called MKC, too, about it and got the FDA approval speech. I just don't think this is a good product.

  76. I'm in complete agreement with you there, my prior comment was in reference to the previous poster that blankets all MK products as "toxic."

    I'm rather annoyed with MKC right now as they seem to have ignored my second email which included links to research that has shown talc to be harmful. Also, Talc is currently NOT regulated by the FDA.

  77. I'm also upset with MKC on this because in Mary Kay Ash's autobiography she wrote about a particular product that they were ready to launch (I believe this was in the 80's) at a time that Retinae(?) was deemed questionable. This particular product contained the ingredient. They decided not to launch the product. Instead, they destroyed all that was manufactured. Later that year, the FDA outlawed the use of whatever ingredient it was. I think it was retinae, but I would have to reread the book to know for sure. Anyway, they avoided an expensive recall by making that decision.
    My issues is, why can't they do that now with the talc.

  78. I went to InTouch to look at the talc issue. Have you ever had any trouble with the moisture mask, night solution or 3/1 cleanser? Here is what I copied from the website:

    Products containing this ingredient:

    MK Signature™ Eye Color (Discontinued - 3/16/08*)
    MK Signature™ Cheek Color (Discontinued - 3/16/08*)
    MK Signature™ Eye Color Duet (Discontinued - 3/16/08*)
    MK Signature™ Highlighters Bronzing Beads (Discontinued - 3/16/05)
    Mary Kay® Dual-Coverage Powder Foundation (Discontined - 12/16/07)
    MK Signature™ Cheek Color Duet (Discontinued - 3/16/08*)
    MK Signature™ Bronze Highlighting Powder (Discontinued - 12/16/07)
    Mary Kay® Mineral Powder Foundation
    Mary Kay® Mineral Bronzing Powder - Shimmer
    Mary Kay® Mineral Bronzing Powder - Matte
    Mary Kay® Mineral Cheek Color
    Mary Kay® Mineral Eye Color - Shimmer
    Mary Kay® Mineral Eye Color - Matte
    Mary Kay® Mineral Highlighting Powder - Shimmer
    Mary Kay® Mineral Highlighting Powder - Matte
    Mary Kay® Sheer Mineral Pressed Powder
    MK Signature™ Eye Primer
    Mary Kay® Full-Coverage Foundation
    MK Signature™ Concealer
    Mary Kay® Medium-Coverage Foundation
    MK Signature™ Facial Highlighting Pen
    Day Radiance® Cream Foundation (Optional Product) (Discontinued Package - 3/16/08)
    MK Signature™ Flawless Mascara (Discontinued - 12/16/05)
    Day Radiance® Cream Foundation
    MK Signature™ Classic Blonde Brow Definer Pencil (Discontinued - 6/16/07)
    MK Signature® Brow Definer Pencil
    MK Signature® Brow Definer Pencil Classic Blonde
    TimeWise® 3-In-1 Cleanser (C/O)
    TimeWise® Night Solution
    Moisture Rich Mask Formula 1
    TimeWise® 3-In-1 Cleanser (N/D)


  79. Me, I haven't experienced a problem with the talc in those products because they are not products that float into the air.

    My main issue with talc is that having it in the mineral powder foudnation is an inhalation risk. It doesn't cause a problem with me in the eye shadows, creams, or cleansers--I can't breathe those in. The mineral powder foundation, however, is nearly impossible not to inhale while applying.

    ~Shades of Pink~

  80. Thanks, Shades. I didn't know if it was strictly the inhalation or other aspects as well. I was surprised that talc was in so many products. Did you have a problem with the bronzing beads or bronzing powder (pressed)? The beads could have been inhaled, I suppose.

    I've not had any problems nor have my customers. My issue is the minerals are drying and my skin is like the Sahara already. With our skin care, it is corrected, but adding something that dries is not a good thing for me! I am experimenting with the powder foundation and then I will with the pressed mineral powder too.

    About medical relations: I would call. I usually get nearly instant answers when I call and it allows for a back/forth conversation. Email frustrates me. Keep us posted.


  81. The sites I read focused on inhalation and a risk for ovarian cancer. The only risk that seems relevant with the MK products would be the inhalation risk because talc is a similar substance to asbestos. I cough whenever I apply it. I have been putting less on the brush and that definitely helps. It's tricky!
    The ovarian cancer issue shouldn't be a risk for MK users because it should be applied there! :P

    The dryness you're experiencing, Me, could be caused by the talc. That was actually one if its functions--to keep the skin dry so that the powder adheres better. ;) Mine feels a little dry, but it doesn't look dry which is good.

  82. I've had no trouble with the Mineral Powder. I need more coverage, however, so I prefer the Med. Cov. foundation.

    Kym's Day said that all of MK's ingredients are toxic. Even the botanicals. Hmmm. According to whom? She gives no sources, no references. My response - hogwash!

    Any given substance is toxic to someone. Doesn't mean it's a bad substance for all.

    Peanuts, for example. Some people are literally deathly allergic to peanuts. Forget about cancer - they'll just drop dead. Yet peanuts are not banned. Peanuts are a healthy food (snack!)for some people.

  83. MK4Me, GREAT open house! Just under $3,000 retail sold in two days - AWESOME!

    (Kinda makes $10,000 w/s inventory seem like not enough!)

  84. mk4me how did you advertise for your open house?

  85. Hi all, I don't really advertise my open house, I just send out invitations to my client list and if I have their email addresses, they get an email invite too. I haven't been confident enough to not do the snail mail.

    Time permiting I do some reminder calls - but the last few times, I didn't have time to do that.

    I also put on the invite, "If you are said you can't make it this weekend, call or email me your order and you will recieve a 10% discount.

    I do four open house a year in my old town. March (Spring) - June (Summer) - September Fall/Back to School and Holiday/Winter (this one is always the first weekend in December. I can tell you that for that one I almost don't need to send out invites, my clients know the first weekend in December is the Holiday Open House. I try to do the open houses, right after the old catalog has ended and most clients don't have the new one in their hands yet. That way they can see what is coming and then they are really excited when the Look Books come out. And... because I do give some discounts during the open house, the one pcp premium has expired and the new one isn't really out yet.

    I will do a few at my home or in another town a couple times a year, but haven't built those to the degree of the ones in mold hometown.

  86. To Anon who keeps calling me stupid!
    Maybe with all the posts you didn't see this... I asked since you are telling me I am doing my business stupid - please tell me what your best business advice for me to make as much as I am making or more. (I am calling you out)
    **Please note it will help no one, in or out of MK if you come back and simply say, It is stupied because I say so! You have been

    I have been regularly checking back, because anyone that would make such bold comments must have 2cents to back it up with.

    Back it up< I am looking forward to a debate that will help others.

    ** Add another $250 on voice mail and one more order on email. And... well, I save the gooooood stuff for later.

    Nite all-hopefully the new Ambien CR the doc gave me, may help me go to sleep before 5 am.


For Further Reading...

This Week On Pink Truth - Click Here
Pros and Cons of Mary Kay - Read or Contribute or Both!
First Post - Why I Started This Blog
The Article I Wrote For (here) (there)
If this is your first visit please leave a comment here. I would love to hear from you!
If you want to email me:
But you are probably better emailing mk4me: