Tuesday, August 5, 2008

Pink Truth: Mary Kay and Faith don't mix

Here is a really quick thought, but one that should probably generate a lot of discussion.

Some people on Pink Truth claim that their faith was manipulated in order to force them into ordering more than they needed, and, in some cases, ultimately manipulate others this way as well.

Others maintain that faith and religion have no place in any work environment and therefore should not be spoken about in Mary Kay.

Meanwhile, some in Mary Kay insist that it is God who blesses their Mary Kay and they would be remiss to not at least acknowledge the good favor He has blessed them with.

Still others agree that faith and religion have no place in any work environment and therefore should not be spoken about in Mary Kay.

There are people in Mary Kay and people on Pink Truth that would call themselves Christians, and those that would not.

My question is, if ones faith can be manipulated as easily as some claim theirs was, wouldn't that cause serious concerns about ones faith being weak?

There is a lot here, and I must warn everyone... If you are easily offended, you should probably not join in this conversation. If you put your thoughts, feelings, beliefs, etc. on this post, be prepared to defend them.

Should religion and faith be kept quiet in Mary Kay?

Is talking about God to a potential recruit manipulation? Or just out of place?

If someone tells you, "God's will for your life is to sell Mary Kay" and you just blindly take their word for it, who really is to blame there?


  1. OMG! My director told me that God is who put me in contact with her. That it was because of GOD that we met, so it was His will that I sell MK. I thought she was wacko. I mean, what about the war in the middle east? Is that God's will, too, that so many die every day? Does God determine every aspect of our lives? Is everything we do predetermined? I do not think so. I think we are all free moral agents and were created with a will of our own. We do what we choose.

    Now, I do feel that some in MK do use faith as a manipulation. Why else even mention it. MK's mantra is God first, family second, and career third. I have a bible education class every Monday night. Same night as my director's MK meeting. She asked me to go to her meeting instead of my bible class. I mentioned the mantra and her response was that God lead me to MK and therefore would want me to attend my MK meetings. THAT is manipulative. And ridiculous.

  2. I DO believe that one should take God as their business partner in life as well as marriage and personal decisions to be made. There are people that I consider to be "heathens" who have successful businesses. I dont think that we should go around telling people that if you are POOR the Lord is not blessing you or you dont believe yada, yada.
    I think the MK credo God First, Family Second, Career third is to be taken and applied on an individual basis, everyone has a different situation. I believe in the Lord but Im also of the belief that it is our personal life that others see that will bring people to God not our sales! Religion is a funny thing and there are many different sects and faiths that people follow so I dont think anyone has the right to use scripture or any bible books to
    manipulate people, everyone has a different agenda in their personal life. When you go on a job interview the HR director does not spew scripture out at you they want to know if you are reliable and if you can do the job! If a woman chooses go to a bible study with her director or sister consultant that is her decision. I dont think it should be a group requirement. Business is business and if you run an honest ship people will see God in it. If the ship sinks (lose a unit or production is low) that does not mean the Lord is not blessing you, it means you need to work a little harder OR its just a fact of life that there are ups and downs in business. God is good and he doesnt need the MK initials behind him to prove that he is the Alpha and the Omega.

  3. (Off topic) MK is smart if they go back to three 4 month duration with the car first before you become a director because if a DIQ can keep up the four month period of 4000-4500 a month it will make her directors unit strong for that four months while the director is building again. I never thought about it. Maybe getting to directorship will be longer but it keeps up production for everyone.

  4. I believe there is a time and place. A staff meeting, IMO, is not the place.

    If I want religion, I will go to church and listen or just meditate. Just like, if I want to discuss my personal finances and portfolio performance, I do not expect my priest to pontificate the merits of a medium/high-risk return so that the church can capitalize more on my "luck".

    Another example: my relationship with God is personal and intimate and one I care to compartmentalize, much like my marriage. Case in point: I love my husband and I would go to the moon for him. (Everybody knows this simply by our non-verbal language when we're together, i.e., the way we look at each other, or my husbands attentiveness or his hand on the small of my back/around my waist.) But we funnel our expression of love and respect for each other to the appropriate time and place.

    Would it be appropriate for us to suck face and grope one another in a Mary Kay meeting? I think it would make people feel uncomfortable. Would it be appropriate for us to be demonstrative like that in a church at 11:00AM. Ummm, some people might enjoy the show, LOLOL, but many would be wishing we'd get a room! We'd probably be reproached by our priest.

    We don't feel the need to be OVERTLY so, so that people know this. And as such, I just don't think mixing God and business together, like some directors in Mary Kay do, is necessary, either.

  5. I am a Christian though I will admit that I dont' go to church on a regular basis. Denomination wise I was raised very strict Roman Catholic but I am now a convert to Orthodox Christianity (like Greek or Bulgarian orthodox). I was not raised in an atmosphere in which witnessing to the world through speaking out about my faith was really strongly encouraged. In fact, I was raised that the best was to witness is not to talk about the faith but rather to live the faith and witness by example. With that background all being said I'll now address the topic at hand.
    When I first joined MK I thought it was interesting in a good way that a company would put God and family before work. However, I quickly became uncomfortable with the amount of "God talk" (thats how I always refered to it in my mind). In my unit there was a LOT of talk about Christianity and the Bible and Prayers. Part of my discomfort was because I am not at a point in my life where I have settled into a comfortable spirituality. I understand that isnt' anyone's fault. However, my director was all about reading long bible passages or devotion readings on voicecom that you had to listen all the way through before you could get to the information that you actually needed (aka important meeting info will follow this great devotion I want to share). That type of thing made me frustrated because I felt like I was being forced to listed to devotions from denominations that didn't necessarily agree with what I believe. When I wasn't doing well in the company (not long before I left) I had some MKers tell me that I would have done better if I had gone to church consistantly. I felt like I was being told that God was punishing me through MK for not going to church or not believing the right things. That was offensive to me.
    I have worked for other Christian owned companies when I was a Nurse Aide. Actually I even spent six months working in a convent's infirmiry/ nursing home where I cared for dying nuns. Religion and God were a HUGE part of that job but even there I found more acceptance of other relgions or even employees who were not christian or did not even believe in God. Thats just my experience though.

  6. If you are a religious person be it Christian, or any other faith, then I think you would feel compelled to allow that to influence your life, including career and business decisions.

    If a business person spoke to me and dropped religion into the conversation in a way that was congruent with a believer simply spreading the word then I would respect their right to believe in whatever they choose.

    On the other hand, if someone were to tell me I ought to do something because it is 'God's will' then I'm going to be as suspicious as hell.

    My understanding of most religions is that the greatest gift given to humans was freewill.. why then use religion to try and remove someone's choices from a business setting? That would be classed as manipulation for sure.

  7. Scam said: "If a business person spoke to me and dropped religion into the conversation in a way that was congruent with a believer simply spreading the word then I would respect their right to believe in whatever they choose."

    Here, here. I'm Catholic, my neighbor two doors down from us is another denomination. He'll come over and chew the fat with me for an hour or so, then tell me, "God bless, dear," when he leaves me. He'll tell me that when he greets me or leaves me. I don't find this offensive. I just feel honored that he feels comfortable enough with me to share his "happiness". One time he offered my husband a pamphlet of his beliefs. Not to "recruit" him or us, simply to share who he was.

    If we're to dinner with friends and they want to say grace, okay! My husband has never been baptized in any denomination and has no desire to be. But he enjoys the experience and the inclusion. He's of the mind that he has no idea what happens when we die so he's 'open'. Hence our kids are baptized Catholic and attend a Catholic school. He likes the values they're learning.

    When my dad died, some coworkers dropped written words and cards of sympathy, mostly spiritual in nature, on my desk/chair when I was off for me to find when I returned. I may not have been of the same faith as them, but I treasure those cards to this day. Their thoughtfulness and words comforted me then and their thoughtfulness still touch me to this day.

    My point being that there is a time and place. Spirituality may percolate over into areas where you wouldn't "normally" see it, but again, there is usually a reason for religion being where it is when it appears.

    I Just don't find one's success in Mary Kay being in direct proportion to one's strength of belief, valid.

  8. Wow. This is a thorny topic.

    Religion is so personal and many people take it as a personal afront if you don't agree with their religion exactly as they belief it.

    Before I share my feelings on the whole Mary Kay & religion thing, let me say that I believe in God. I was baptised in the Presbyterian Church as an infant and as a teenager was confirmed in the Presbyterian Church. When I attend church, I take communion. I believe in living by the Golden Rule.

    My life experience has shown me over and over again that those who run around screaming what a "good Christian" they are will stab me in the back if they have the opportunity to stand behind me for 1/2 second. My experience in this area started as a child from a close family member who was a minister for 50 years. Needless to say, my back gets up about religion fairly easily.

    Along with that belief, I believe that my religious values are most evident in my actions. Words themselves are hollow.

    All of that said, I get enraged at Seminar (or anywhere in MK) when people start telling me that their success is because they took God as their partner. How do they know I didn't take him as my partner too?

    In my seminar, there is a woman who is the Queen of Sales year after year after year. And every year, she sits on that throne telling us how much she loves God and how much he loves her. I think it's the height of arrogance and the least Christian thing in the world. Don't sit there and basically tell me that you love God more than I do or that he loves you more than he loves me and THAT's why you're the Queen of Sales for the umteenth-million time.

    I simply find it offensive. It completely ignores other religions and is completely condescending.

    The bottom line is she's successful and Queen year after year after year because she sells more than anyone else. She worked harder. And the same goes for everyone else who excels in any arena - Mary Kay or otheriwse.

    You may say I'm jealous that she's #1 and I'm not. I would disagree. I had a great year. One that I'm very proud of. I was #1 in sales in my unit and in our future area. I was in the Go Give Princess Court of Sales. I was Miss Go Give. And a lot of people asked me (and continue to ask me) how I did it. My answer has nothing to do with God. My answer is to work hard, set a goal, track your progress daily, and build your client base wide (many clients) and deep (using many products).

  9. Why do I get the feeling this topic is sensitive?

  10. I don't mind people giving credit to God in their MK businesses.

    I don't mind people saying they've taken God as their business partner.

    I'm not as eloquent as Colleen. Loved what you said, Colleen!

    It's not for me to say whether or not any person feels that she owes her MK success to God. Perhaps she feels that she would not have had the self-discipline to make those phone calls, or to open her mouth and ask, if not for help from God.

    I believe that in many instances God's strength takes over when my strength gives out.

    Yeah, I do think that some MK women go overboard taking about God with regard to her business, but I truly don't mind it. I've run across people who are not in MK and it's God this and God that in everything. But IMO that's okay, because they are simply expressing their faith and reliance on God.

    To be totally honest, it's the talking about God in MK that actually put me back on my path to God.

    I'd rather people talk about God than pretend He does not exist. I am very capable of taking whatever is said with a grain of salt.

    Dave asks,

    1. "Should religion and faith be kept quiet in Mary Kay?

    2. Is talking about God to a potential recruit manipulation? Or just out of place?

    3. If someone tells you, "God's will for your life is to sell Mary Kay" and you just blindly take their word for it, who really is to blame there?"

    My responses:
    1. No.
    2. No. I do think it might be prudent to follow the lead of the potential recruit on this matter, though.
    3. I don't think one person can determine what God's will is for another person. That IMO is between the individual and God. I feel it is the person blindly following another that is to blame.

  11. Sensitive topic, but short and sweet, MK is a business, we live in America, (the right to speak), and any type of manipulation, religious or otherwise is wrong.

    (I haven't disappeared, things are just very busy and then today, I am icky sick, fever and I can't talk, ugg... throat is so sore, had to reschedule party that I had tonight)

  12. wow a DIRECTOR having to reschedule a party not a client. MK4ME you rock!!!!!

  13. Hey David make the CAR copay or the car a topic.

  14. Hey Colleen,

    Why not become an author?

    Then you can create a topic about the car or the car copay!

    how about it? huh? huh?


  15. Ooops sorry David, but Colleen, I second David's request to consider being an author.

  16. mk4me,

    Not to worry, your post aboutMary Kay Cars and Production requirements is great!


    Don't think this gets you off the hook!!

  17. ahhhhh...Ok what do I have to do?
    Since Im working 30 hours a week now, got laid off of my good 40k plus commission job 4 weeks ago I guess I have time ..especially since I got my computer back. I guess Im hooked.


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