Tuesday, August 26, 2008

Mary Kay Recruiters Consistently Lie About Everything. True or False?

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I posted this question, "Is Mary Kay an illegal pyramid scheme? Will the results of the Y.T.B. lawsuit change things for Mary Kay?".

While there were many good responses, yesterday someone saw fit to go through all the trouble to create a blogger profile just so they could "flame" this site with Pink Truth propaganda.

It went something like this.

"Let me tell you in no uncertain terms that getting into Mary Kay Cosmetics is extremely dangerous! Recruiters consistently lie about everything, and the lies are perpetuated over and over:
"MK marketing plan taught at Harvard" NOT!!!!
"MK is a dual-marketing plan" NOT!!!
"Executive income on part-time hours" NOT!!!!
"You can write off your personal use of products as advertisement" NOT!!!!
Make no mistake that MKC is a devious, corrupt company whose catchy motto "Enriching Womens' Lives" is anything but! Thousands upon thousands of womens'lives have been destroyed by following the advice and business practices handed down from their uplines: divorce (their widely taught "husband unawareness program"), foreclosures (ordering incentives and "short-term loss for long-term gain"), and bankruptcy ("fake it till you make it").
Beware! Mary Kay Cosmetics preys on womens' natural trust.
If this lawsuit being discussed here rests upon the fact that their salesforce consistantly lie about the "flopportunity", then yes, MKC will be next. And for the sake of innocent women, I truly hope it will."

As I suspected, the cowardly deviant had no designs to stick around and explain his/her position, much less defend it.

However, and I am sure quite opposite the expectations of aforementioned deviant, I would like to discuss this further.

Since this seems to mirror somewhat accurately the complaints and missives of the Pink Truth crowd, this is a great opportunity for the "balanced" crowd to respond.

What say all of you? Are these rantings valid? Have you seen any of these things take place?


  1. GOOD MORNING EVERYONE!!! Well alls I can say again is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. That is where it lies. Here is the thing do you sign a contract without reading it? Do you just do business because someone tells you that is and that happen? Well, I can tell you that I checked it out. I do work my MK part-time. I am hoping to do it more full time. I believe and this is just me that a recruiter will tell someone that you can work part-time and make a full-time income. Well, if you look in the corporate world working 30 hours a week is part-time.

    In this business it is not hard work however you have to work hard to make it work. I am so tired of everyone putting it down. Here is the thing if you don't like it then get out and move on. Let it go. I will say that these women that are putting down MK are really putting hard work into trying to tear it down.

    MK is a member of the DSA I have looked it up on the net and they are a member in good standing. About the Havard thing I don't know however I am thinking that it might be.

    Again I will say it boils down to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Something that people don't want to do. I was lied too...well learn from it and move on. I was made to purchase $9000 worth of products well no one forced you to put that card number in and push the button. Move on and you will be happier.

  2. Re validity. I say some of it is valid. Based on my personal experience and what I observed while I was in May Kay I can say that I see where this person is coming from.

    Maybe Mary Kay was studied at Harvard by a class sometime back when they were a public company and a lot was known about their structure and performance. They're a private company, now, so it's too difficult to use them as case study. What I do know is that each post-secondary course has a syllabus and case studies in a business program are the norm. I know when I was in my business program we studied different business models. The Body Shop and IBM stick out in my mind. That's not to say that the case studies are held up as "best practice" or anything. Most of the time you're dissecting their business model in order to identify certain strategic business tools, etc., and how they contribute to the bottom line be it positive or negative. Who's to say for sure if Mary Kay was ever used, if it was in what instance, i.e., compensation study, product to market study, locally versus globally, etc. Who knows. Does it matter? Maybe to somebody contemplating/selling the opportunity. Maybe Harvard lends credibility to the Mary Kay opportunity because Harvard is Ivy League and that's prestigious. You know, birds of a feather. It's all in the packaging for some.

    "Dual-marketing" - By definition, dual-marketing is essentially two organisations that want the same customer but for different reasons, share their advertising spending so that they both benenfit by getting a much bigger overall campaign at a greatly reduced cost. An example could be one company giving another company's product away as a free gift. (Toothpaste and toothbrush.)

    So, I'd say that Mary Kay is not a dual-marketing company. The consultant is only allowed to buy and/or use pre-approved marketing tools usually created and furnished by Mary Kay Corporate. If the consultant creates their own marketing tools, it's suppose to be pre-approved by Mary Kay. The consultant is contractually obligated to advertise Mary Kay the way/place/time Mary Kay says they are allowed to. The consultant is not another business selling their own product which could be bundled with Mary Kay. So I agree that Mary Kay is NOT a dual-marketing company.

    "Executive Income for part-time hour"s: I'd say that this doesn't exist for the majority of Mary Kay's sales force, regardless of level. Now, I'd like to qualify my statement by saying I was never an "executive" i.e., white collar professional. So I don't know what executive level pay is per se. Maybe my definition of executive pay differs from another's. But my understanding of executive pay is that usually you get out what you put in and therefore, part-time anything wouldn't consistently pay a whole heck of a lot. I concur that that's a broad stroke statement and there are exceptions. I'm saying that most of the women in Mary Kay are not exceptional given the amount of NSD to director to red jacket, etc., etc., ratio. Also, the commissions earned, even if they are at an executive pay level, have to sit in purgatory for a year before they can be classified as YOUR income. So those commissions earned may have to be paid back if some exercises their 90% buy-back. So really, does one ever really know who much they earn in any given year?

    "Writing off personal use product as advertisement". You can write-off a certain amount of product for demo, shelf-life expiration, etc. At least I was able to. I'm not an accountant. I think it would be prudent to sit with an accountant and find out what you're able to deduct as business expense and what you're not then conduct your business accordingly.

    The rest of the post is pretty severe and made with strong conviction. Maybe too much so as it's really hard to hear the message when you're being yelled at. Obviously this person has no doubt what she says is true. I lend validity to some of it as I have seen/experienced some pretty devious business dealings myself. For example, I was front-loaded and my recruiter did "misrepresent" some things, i.e., the purpose of the meetings, how much she "made", inventory level necessity, etc. Whatever. It's her conscience at the end of the day. My biggest disappointment was with Corporate and how they handled what I told them. They supported the director and recruiter and reproached me for insinuating "such things". It wasn't just me going through what I did, it was her whole team. Corporate can pull up anything on their system and validate anything they want to. If they want to. They didn't, so I did what I could do to change MY circumstances and chose to exercise my right to the 90% buy-back and got out. I realize I'm just one person. But by the sounds of it, I'm not the only one.

  3. From InTouch (pretty much all of the points in said comment are addressed on the At-A-Glance brochure):

    Fiction: Mary Kay management principles are taught
    at Harvard.

    Fact: Case studies on Mary Kay’s business model have been shared at the collegiate level at several prestigious
    universities. Professors and college text-book writers have contacted Mary Kay Inc. to learn more about Mary Kay Ash and the Company she founded.


  4. This claim is false:
    "Recruiters consistently lie about everything, and the lies are perpetuated over and over."

    I wasn't lied to by my recruiter, and I don't lie. Statements like this in absolutes are ridiculous and I think most intelligent people realize that.

  5. Aw...my links didn't work. :( Anyway, it's on www.marykay.com under Sell Mary Kay.

  6. More from InTouch:

    "How does Mary Kay respond to complaints about independent sales force activities that violate the terms of Independent Beauty Consultant, Independent Sales Director and/or Independent National Sales Director agreements?"
    When it comes to situations regarding contractual violations, we strive to give each independent sales force member an opportunity to learn and become better and stronger. Whenever possible, we do endeavor to give independent sales force members the opportunity to understand when they have violated the terms of their agreements with the Company if we believe that doing so is likely to ensure that similar activities do not occur in the future. In making decisions about how to address a particular issue, we always look carefully at the specific facts and information involved, evaluate all options available to us and strive to make a decision that is most appropriate for purposes of preserving and protecting the Mary Kay opportunity for all.

    If you receive a letter or a phone call from the Legal Support Team bringing a contractual violation to your attention, we simply ask that you take our efforts to bring an issue to your attention seriously and pay close attention to the information we provide to ensure that you understand what went wrong and how you can avoid engaging in the same activity in the future. If you don’t understand, we encourage you to ask questions until you do.

    In the meantime, with approximately 650,000 independent sales force members in the United States, it is impossible for us to be aware of everything that every sales force member is doing at all times. If we don’t hear about it, we likely won’t know that a problem may exist. So by all means, if you have first-hand information regarding questionable business practices of an independent sales force member, or if you have questions about something you are doing or may consider doing in the future, please contact the Mary Kay Legal Support Team at 972-687-5777 or legalsupport@mkcorp.com. We work hard to ensure that we only take action based upon first-hand and specific information and evidence, remembering that unsubstantiated rumors, speculation or other second- or third-hand reports which can not be verified are rarely reliable or true. Therefore, we simply ask that you be prepared to provide specific information and evidence in writing to support your claims, so that we can determine if an investigation is warranted.

    We’re here to ensure you have the information you need to build and maintain your Mary Kay business on a solid foundation. If you ever have questions about your Independent Beauty Consultant, Independent Sales Director or Independent National Sales Director agreement, please contact the Legal Support Team at 972-687-5777 or legalsupport@mkcorp.com.

    "How much money can I expect to earn as an Independent Beauty Consultant?"
    The earning opportunity associated with a Mary Kay business is certainly open-ended; however, it is impossible to guarantee that a particular level of income can be earned. The amount of money you may make as a Mary Kay Independent Beauty Consultant will depend upon many factors including your personal goals and the amount of time and effort you choose to invest in your business. Many Independent Beauty Consultants operate their businesses on a part-time basis with the goal of meeting short-term financial goals – such as the purchase of holiday gifts for their families, to pay for a family vacation, school clothes or tuition for their children. Meanwhile, others decide to build their Mary Kay businesses to the point at which it becomes possible for them to quit their jobs and pursue their Mary Kay businesses full time. The bottom line is that how much you earn in your Mary Kay business is strictly up to you. So in the words of Mary Kay Ash, Set your goals and hang on to them until they are a reality. You've got to believe it before you will ever see it. Whatever the mind can perceive and believe, you can achieve!"

    "What are the sales and marketing approaches that will help me be most successful in a Mary Kay career?"
    Mary Kay made it clear that she did not like pushy salespeople. While tenacity and perseverance are certainly important qualities for success in any sales oriented business, we have found that the most successful Mary Kay Independent Beauty Consultants approach sales and recruiting by consistently applying the Golden Rule; using their own good judgment along with a loving and caring spirit. As a result, when making decisions about your sales and recruiting activities, we always recommend that you put yourself in the other person's shoes, remembering to treat them only as you would want to be treated. As Mary Kay often said, "You have a wealth of influence, and everyone you meet forms an impression of you by your words and actions. So make the Golden Rule your way of life."

    "The Mary Kay Business Opportunity: What Does It Really Take to Succeed?"
    Independent Sales Directors and Independent National Sales Directors talk about living their dreams, and you question just what it takes to get there. You may have heard them talk about the flexibility of a Mary Kay business and how it's enabled them to spend quality time with their families. They can enjoy such rewards as the use of a Career Car and monetary earnings that perhaps allowed them to give up their full-time jobs. How is it possible to have it all?

    Make no mistake: These women have worked very hard to get where they are today. When people hear Mary Kay Ash's philosophy of "God first, family second, career third," they may misinterpret what she meant. Keeping one's priorities in balance doesn't mean you don't have to work hard or make sacrifices to be successful. What does set the Mary Kay opportunity apart from a typical corporate job, however, is that you have more flexibility.

    Mary Kay Ash was known for being one of the hardest-working people you'd ever meet. As the founder of what she called the "Five O'Clock Club," her day began no later than 5 a.m. She chose to sacrifice an hour or two of sleep to achieve a jump-start on her day. Many Independent Beauty Consultants choose to join the Five O'Clock Club so they can accomplish what they need to before dropping their children off at school. On the other hand, maybe sleep is too precious to you, and you'd rather focus the bulk of your efforts during the second half of the day. Or perhaps you'd rather schedule your appointments around your children's activities, holding skin care classes while they are in school. Or maybe you prefer to work your business on weekends instead. The choices are limitless.

    By contrast, in corporate America, odds are good your employer expects you to be at the office, at a minimum, from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. You probably don't have the flexibility to decide your own work hours. You might be lucky enough to work for a company that offers flextime, but nonetheless, it's rare you would be able to pick your own hours as you see fit.

    As a Mary Kay Independent Beauty Consultant, you are your own boss, so you get to decide what time you begin and end your work each day. You determine your own schedule and the rate at which you want to climb the ladder of success. If your goal is simply to supplement the income from your full-time job, the number of hours you devote to your Mary Kay business will likely be relatively small. On the other hand, if you choose to replace and/or exceed your income from your full-time job, you should expect to put in longer hours in order to accomplish that goal.

    The point is that you're free to choose your destiny. You determine the balance of faith, family and career that's right for you.

    "Someone once said, 'Mary Kay is the best-paying hard work in the world.' I believe that we all have material wants and needs, so determine how your Mary Kay business can help you achieve them." — Mary Kay Ash

  7. I think there are a lot of instances when people try to rephrase information and they wind up putting it into the wrong context. Then it gets regurgitated. It's the "telephone effect." By the time it gets to the 25th person, the message is extremely distorted from the original.

  8. I tend to print these things out from InTouch and give them to my team/potential team members.

  9. My last contribution from InTouch:

    ;) [This is on dual marketing, MLM, pyramid schemes, what have you]

    A. There is one wholesale sale (Company to Independent Beauty Consultant) and one retail sale (from Beauty Consultant to customer) of Mary Kay® products. There are no levels of wholesalers between the Company and the consumer through which products pass at varying discounts before sales. Thus everyone, whether Independent Beauty Consultant or Independent Sales Director (Sales Director of sales unit of Independent Beauty Consultants), purchases all cosmetics products directly from the Company at the same published wholesale prices for resale to consumers of their choice. Everyone has the opportunity to buy at the same discount irrespective of their status on the independent sales force career path.

    B. Everyone recruited as an Independent Beauty Consultant is recruited to sell products at retail. Independent Beauty Consultants do not recruit others to buy products from them. All Independent Beauty Consultants are thus aware that all products purchased by them are for sale at retail to ultimate consumers (or may be returned to the Company for repurchase).

    C. Every Mary Kay independent sales force member begins as an Independent Beauty Consultant with the purchase of a Starter Kit. No compensation is earned by anyone on this Starter Kit purchase. The products and sales tools included in the Starter Kit are designed to introduce a new Independent Beauty Consultant to Mary Kay and help her begin building her business. No "investment" is required and no status on the independent sales force career path may be purchased by the payment of fees or by the purchase of a given quantity of products from the Company or anyone else. There are thus no "sales" of "levels," "positions," "distributorships" or "franchises" by the Company or any of the Independent Beauty Consultants.

    D. Elevation from Independent Beauty Consultant to Independent Sales Director does not involve the payment of any fee, rebate, premium or hidden discount of any kind to either the Company or anyone else. Elevation, at the election of any Independent Beauty Consultant, is based strictly upon individual effort and ability.

    E. Any Mary Kay Independent Beauty Consultant who terminates her contractual relationship with the Company may return unsold products in original and unused condition, and these will be repurchased by the Company per the terms of the Independent Beauty Consultant Agreement at 90 percent of her original net cost.

    F. The Company pays all commissions directly to Independent Beauty Consultants and Independent Sales Directors. The commissions are paid based upon monthly purchases and recorded on computer reports furnished with the commission payments. The entire marketing structure is based on and intended to foster retail sales to ultimate consumers. Commissions paid on any products returned for repurchase by the Company by an Independent Beauty Consultant terminating her Independent Beauty Consultant Agreement, pursuant to Item E above (i.e., products not sold at retail), are charged back to the commission recipient.

  10. Shades, I think you made a very valid point, as the info gets repeated over and over - things get twisted. We used to play a game when I was young - everyone sits in a circle and the first person whispers a sentence into the person's ear sitting next to them. And then that persons turns and whispers what they heard in the next persons ear. When it gets to the last person, they say the sentence out loug.

    Then the first person usually ends up laughing because the finally sentence is so different then what stared.

    I do believe this is where some of the "facts" get blurred.Especially that Harvard one.

  11. Intersting fact on that the University thing, I can not the list but there were four University's that had people attend Seminar to study the dynamics of the Event.

    Now, let's think about it, if Mary Kay had something to hide or feared the way an "outsider" would view it, would they have allowed them to attend??

  12. LOL! MK4Me, the game you described is "telephone" and that was exactly what I was referring to. ;)

  13. "C. Every Mary Kay independent sales force member begins as an Independent Beauty Consultant with the purchase of a Starter Kit. No compensation is earned by anyone on this Starter Kit purchase. The products and sales tools included in the Starter Kit are designed to introduce a new Independent Beauty Consultant to Mary Kay and help her begin building her business."

    It's not "her business". She cannot sell it if she chooses to do something else or retire. She is a RESELLER and has a contractual obligation to relinquish her client list and down-line if she chooses to leave... or is asked to leave. She is merely a vessel or a distribution channel. Without her, Mary Kay ceases to exist and vice versa. This does not define what "dual marketing" is in the conventional business sense. Kist because the reseller has a direct relationship with the manufacturer and thus compensation is reflected as such does not define the relationship as "dual marketing". If you are interpreting it this way, then you are literally applying the word "dual" literally. But I will tell you, "dual marketing" does not mean that. It is not used to describe a channel. It is used to describe a marketing TACTIC. (emphasis)

    In short, selling Mary Kay is direct selling NOT dual marketing hence the DSA recognizing Mary Kay.

    " No "investment" is required and no status on the independent sales force career path may be purchased by the payment of fees or by the purchase of a given quantity of products from the Company or anyone else."

    This is debatable because it has been reported and talked about that some of the Queen of Sales titles have been "purchased". Laughable maybe. Nasty to say, perhaps. Impossible, not entirely. It can't be proven either way because Corporate does not/has chosen not to, track sales receipts.

  14. flybye64, I have always respected your posts and am grateful you share your experiences here, also I think perhaps you should change your name to hangaround64, but I can say for myself, as much as I love my MK business, I be doggoned if I take the time to turn around and report all my sales to MK Corportate to prove I am selling.
    I am old enough to vote, get married, have kids, have grandkids, etc.... I will not have someone telling me whether or not I can order product from a Company that I choose to pay for.

    If I don't need it, I am not going to order. Period.

    If someone is so foolish, desperate, or crazy to purchase the "title" more power to them. I don't have the money to do that. I will earn my spot and if I don't, then I will try harder the next year, I will not cheat and "buy" it. I am not a fraud and my self esteem is good enough to say, hey, I tried, but I just didn't make it this time. Who really gives a hoot?

    As far as operating my MK as a business I do. Now I will concede that I can not sell my business- but I still see it as my business and I guess more importantly so does the IRS.

  15. Speaking of lies, truths etc... I was reading a post over there and tried not to let it get my dander up but it did. The Post is:

    {{How many cons can you run trying to recruit someone into Mary Kay
    Published in Recruiting by TRACY}}

    {{This is the intro:
    I got this email over the weekend and was amused at the variety of creepy/dishonest tactics this Mary Kay recruiter used to try to lure someone into Mary Kay.}}

    I am not talking about any other posts at this time just this particular article but it reeks of phoney. I could point out oodles of things that don't have a "ring of truth to them" but I love the fact that this poster as acquired "proper MK lingo" in a few short visits, right down to Executive Senior Sales Director and NSD, I just find it fascinating because I have consultants that have trouble keeping all the directors' titles straight.

    One other thing because I just wanted to vent a little not unload, in the article the writer tells all that she is elf-employed making in excess of $100,000 and loves it but the reason she wanted to do MK at first is to pay off her credit card debt!
    Now fancy that, she is making the big bucks and still has credit card debt? hmmm... good thing she didn't get into MK, because then she could have blamed her debt on MK.
    Secondly, she states she makes over $100,000 a year and is self-employed but noone askes her for her 1099 and her schedule c.

    Then as I started reading the comments, it just feels like the lemmings (oops) posters are just being manipulated into feeding frenzy.

    The more I read and watch certain ones get more and more on the evil bandwagon, the more I CAN see if they were dealing with a less than ethical sales director, they certain ones could have been manipulated into doing very silly stuff for the recognition, because if you read long enough you can even see the same behavoir - to get a "that-a-girl" comment on pt.

    Okay thanks for letting me vent.

  16. Flyby64 said:
    "This is debatable because it has been reported and talked about that some of the Queen of Sales titles have been "purchased".'

    Queen of Sales is not a title, that will get you another rung on the ladder...it's a sales contest. You get a ring. A nice ring, but not a car or house or yacht or something...jeez.

    If someone "buys" the sales contest, well then they're pretty dumb. You'd basically be buying $30k worth of product to earn a $600-700 ring. Sorry...that made me laugh.

    Besides, there's a limit to the monthly amount leading up to seminar that you can purchase anyway to prevent swooping in and "buying the title."

  17. mk4me... Touchy. My observation is just that, an observation. It's nothing personal. I'm just pointing out a fact that regardless what Mary Kay says on In Touch, it's possible to "purchase" a title. Like you say, if "you" don't make it, then who gives a hoot. That's the healthy response. Actually the majority of people could give a hoot. But not everyone takes the honest and high road. There is the minority. Desperate (they call themselves determined and/or creative) people always find the loophole. [That] is a gaping hole in my books. Would it be better to have people submit receipts? I don't think so. But what if they asked just the Queen to submit her sales receipts? How hard would that be? Don't we all keep them anyway? In case we're audited? I did, for sure. I'll have them for the next umpteen years until the 'allowable audit period' has expired. If she's honest about her title, she doesn't have anything to hide, right?

    Actually, I take the receipt thing back. When you do a product refund, as per a Mary Kay acquaintance of mine still in Mary Kay, they are asking for receipts and in some instances they are calling the customer requesting the refund for feedback. Sounds like "work" to me. But I guess Mary Kay knows consultants talk and perhaps that's their way of dissuading consultants from using the repurchase avenue (product return for a customer) to dump product they can't sell and/or are too scared to sell on ebay for fear of being caught. Like I said, if people are desperate, they will find a loophole. In her case, she just calls her friends and family and lets them know what's she's up to incase they call. Devious? Yup! Manipulative? Yup! Undermining? Yup, yup! Not that her actions make what was done to her anymore right (front-loaded... see my earlier comment). Her business, not mine.

    Re owning a business... we just finished paying off my father-in-law in order to own our own business -- 13 years later. I'm particularly sensitive about what defines "my own" business. I see it differently than you do. No offense intended.

  18. "If someone "buys" the sales contest, well then they're pretty dumb. You'd basically be buying $30k worth of product to earn a $600-700 ring. Sorry...that made me laugh. "

    I know. I shake my head at the thought. People are doing it all the time. Do you remember that luggage you could get for $20 with a $600 purchase a few years ago? it was pull luggage with a smaller product case that fit on top of it? People couldn't get on-line fast enough to put in their orders... Then they were raving about this $20 thing they got for $20.

    Uh, noooooo! Try $620!!!! Plus shipping costs and taxes!

    I'm not talking about whether they needed more inventory or not. I'm just talking about what they got for "$20.00"!

  19. "...because if you read long enough you can even see the same behavoir - to get a "that-a-girl" comment on pt. "


  20. Hey flybye64, how about that name change and stick around for awhile?

    You point out something valuable for everyone to remember. Save sales tickets and expense receipts!

    And as for saving receipts, I will keep my backup for my taxes for years and years, even longer than IRS requires because I am so anal about all this stuff, if I ever do get audited, I will probably be the first person IRS kicks out of there office for every pieces of documentation, receipt, sales, etc..

    No offense taken... and congratulations on 13 years of hard work and acheiving your goal.
    That's awesome.

  21. Uh, noooooo! Try $620!!!! Plus shipping costs and taxes!

    Did our MK Lady stare at her new $600 inventory for years until it dried up? Because if she's doing what she's supposed to shouldn't she SELL that inventory? So, she'd make back her $600 investment and sales tax and pay off that cost. If she subtracted the $8.75 shipping from her profits, she'd have made a net profit of $591.25 on that inventory. Plus, the $20 expense was a business expense because it's used to cart product to skin care classes.

  22. Shashew, I couldn't say either way. I would hope so!

    Thanks for the welcome, mk4me. :) Do you know what I went through to get that handle? Painful! I'm so inept. my gmail is actually "flybuy64" because I forgot how my initial flybye account was set up. No doubt there was some easy way to find out but it just wasn't happening for me.

    I feel like Sybil... two personalities and counting....

  23. So, we shouldn't say anything at all? Just let the lies go? How balanced is that?

  24. The problem is, both side of the debate have liars and both sides have good people, the problem with pt there is never any disputing their lies, because the posts get deleted and the poster gets banned.

    It is claimed as the truth and yet it is all one sided, yes if you read the "rules of the site" it does say it is one sided but the reason some of the individuals that are in the mess they are in is because they didn't take the time to read anything in MK, so really do you think they take the time to read the rules of the site or just the info and then decide since there is not one posetive thing mentioned, there is no good?

  25. arabella,

    I am confused. Who is suggesting that you not say anything?

    I do not see anyone saying that anyone should "just let the lies go".

    Am I missing something? What has given you the impression that we are suggesting that?

    If anything, I thought that the point of this post was to discuss a "hit-and-run" accusation about lies. Isn't that the opposite of "just letting the lies go"?

    I thought it was. Am I wrong?

  26. The tone of this blog is pro MK. I have been reading here for months and have seen some here say to "let it go". "Get over it". "This bad thing happened, stop dwelling on it." And as Pink Bren said in the opening statement, take personal responsibility. Translation: You screwed up by allowing yourself to be lied to, manipulated, etc. I think that is wrong. Those comments make someone like me feel as if our comments are not welcome even though you, David, tell us you want both sides. I get the impression that you want both sides in order to tear down, not build up. And it's your site, do what you want. But this place has become more of a PT bash than anything else and PT does not need anymore more advertising.

    The question posed was "Mary Kay Recruiters consistantly lie about everything. True or false." There are some out there who have had a recruiter lie every step of the way. I did. So this quesion will be answered differently by each individual. And to question whether or not this is even valid? Aren't all views valid? This person obviously had a bad experience, as alot of us did.

    This site is as balanced as Pink Truth.

  27. There needs to be some place different views can be expressed for anyone to gain an understanding. PT does not allow that. If people read pt - it is biased. There does need to be another place to balance the view or give another opinion. that place is here.

    As for the tone of this blog it is for doing MK the RIGHT way so people do not have bad experiences such as yourself. We would like to fix what can be fixed - we don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water. I don't feel that all posters on pt are bad. But I don't want them to sink on the Titanic, I don't want to see them go down, down, down, etc....

    PT is over there hoping to take away the way I earn a living to feed my kids and pay my bills. I do things right and honestly, I don't believe in large inventories, I teach at my meetings, my meeting are FREE, I love my unit. So ... should I be happy the pt is trying to destroy what I have built for years?

    In life we all need to accept personal responsilbility for our decisions, your transalation of what Pink Bren is saying is what is begins the bad feelings. I did not see you ask her for clarafication on what she meant, I would read that sentence and never translate it to your opinion.

    As far as personal responsibility, just watch every single court show on tv. How many times do you think after the statement, you should have got it in writing, does the judge say, it says it right hear and you signed it. What do you expect me to do, you should have read it before you signed it. You have a contract. Not one judge says, oh, I am sorry, I am going to throw out the law because this person manipulated you or pretended to be your friend, etc...

    Imho, there is a big difference between bashing a site and disagreeing with them or calling them out on an untrue statement.

  28. arabela,

    The tone of this blog comes from the people that bother to log in and leave a comment. If it is too "pro-mk" for you, please help "fix" that by finding other anti-mk peeps that would be willing to share their insights with the "class".

    There is a difference (I suspect you know this) between "let it go" and "let the lies go". When people here (Pink Bren specifically because you mentioned her) say "let it go", they usually are referring to the people that harp on and on about how evil Mary Kay is with no intention of explaining themselves. It is to these people that most people on this blog say "LET IT GO!!!!!" and maybe add a "for CRYIN' out loud!!!!"

    For you to apply "let it go" to your accusation that we are promoting that people should "let the lies go" is grossly unfair.

    You said:

    "Those comments make someone like me feel as if our comments are not welcome even though you, David, tell us you want both sides."

    I am sorry if you feel that way. Obviously, your comments are welcome. But so are those of people that think you should buck up, take it on the chin, turn the other cheek (or whatever you do when you have been wronged), and move on. Should I censor that person so that your feelings don't get hurt?

    If you disagree, you are more than welcome to do so here. But, as you know, if you plan to disagree you better be ready to explain why you disagree. Frankly, so does Pink Bren. If you have a problem with what she said, address her directly. And she should be prepared to back up her comment.

    Then you said:

    "The question posed was "Mary Kay Recruiters consistantly lie about everything. True or false." There are some out there who have had a recruiter lie every step of the way. I did. So this quesion will be answered differently by each individual. And to question whether or not this is even valid? Aren't all views valid? This person obviously had a bad experience, as alot of us did."

    Again, you seem to be intently interested in making me censor the people that disagree with you and letting the people that agree with you say whatever they want.

    You obviously don't really think that ALL recruiters consistently lie about everything, do you?

    And yet, I should let the person that runs their mouth with ridiculous exaggerations go unchecked, but should delete the comments of anyone that disagrees (or proves invalid) the outrageous and unfounded nature of their claims.... that they refuse to even explain?

    And for this you call my site "as balanced as PT"?

    Tell me your not serious.

  29. I certainly am not interested in having any comments cencored. Really, both sides need to be heard. I do think that some are doing it the right way. I also think that a lot more are doing it the wrong way. I enjoy reading this site for the comments on those doing it right. There are a few actually working and making a living (MK4ME, Speaking). Those I like reading. It shows that it can be done. Some of the others have been doing this business for months, or even years, and can't seem to get things off the ground (if you read their own blogs you will learn this, not here; here everything is rosy). So you could say that they exagerate the good just as PT exagerates the bad.

    And there is a distinct sameness in this blog and PT. PT is anti and name calls the pro MKers. This site is pro and name calls the anti MKers; not as much, but it only takes once. What's the difference? PT's truth is what happened to the majority of the posters. This site's truth is what has happened to the majority of your regular posters. So, yeah, I'm serious when I say I see some similiarities. It all depends on what side of the fence you are on.

  30. Thank you arabella for you opinion of myself and Speaking. Did you read my comment just above the one from David as to why some of us take offense when it says we are like pt?

    PT wants to shut down all of MK, so it will hurt me who (tries) to do things honestly and ethically, (I am sure I have made a mistake or two in my past but I try to learn from errors in judgement and not to repeat them).

    This site gives us who believe in doing things the right way a place to voice good examples. It is not to say that everyone in MK is perfect or that everyone on pt is evil.

    We will have extremes every where. I have a problem with anti-abortion people that will bomb a clinic and kill people. In my opinion, taking a life is just wrong, be it a baby or an adult. Their beliefs do not justify their actions.

    I agree with what you say that some say things in Mk, that they should not. But I also believe that some don't realize what they are saying is not correct. The big example is the MK taught at Harvard..... Take the words... Mk and Harvard....

    I know from learning that there WAS in fact a case study done about Mary Kay Cosmetics at Harvard.

    I have heard some say MK is taught at Harvard.

    Some hearing only those two words will interprete them they way they want.

    So say I have an ex-unit member that I looked at cross eyed once at(just joking, I would never) and now she is on pt because I was awful and manipulative and frontloaded her with her $200 wholesale order and did her first class for her and was always there for her but she is now upset with me and on pt... and suddenly ...hhmmm if I ever said to her what I know.. a case study of MK was done at Harvard... do you think she would actually remember my exact wording??.. or do you think more likely that after reading pt and all consultants lie and say that MK is taught at Harvard, she would also say that I had lied to her and said that Mary Kay is taught at Harvard? - I am being totally serious, I don't think she would analyze what I had said.

    It is power of suggestion. Many of the "lies" that are complained about all have a partial "truth" to them. If you take 4 or 5 key words, it is the other words that can totally change the meaning and that is what most individuals don't listen to or remember.

    Another, there are more woman making over a million in MK than any other Company in the world.

    Key words: over a million,
    MK, other companies...

    Correct - Many of the National Sales Directors have earned more than a Million during their MK career.

    I believe it is easy to see how a truth can become a lie.

  31. mk4me said: PT is over there hoping to take away the way I earn a living to feed my kids and pay my bills. ,,, So ... should I be happy the pt is trying to destroy what I have built for years?

    Some probably wish MKC would fade away. Now. But I think it goes deeper than that. I think a lot of the posters on PT think MKC is doomed if they don't change the way the overall business model is. Some feel they've been abandoned, kicked to the curb and, yes, ignored. So now, for them, it's a witch burning party.

    I don't agree with this. Personally, I worry for the women who are doing it right and who are making a living as a consultant as much as the women left with the fallout of trying to "do Mary Kay". Who am I to say what the right/wrong way is to make a buck for anybody but me? My concern after having been part of [it] is that it's turning into collateral damage everywhere you look.

    Re what I posted yesterday about MKC buying back discontinued product. Why would they even slap a lawsuit on a liquidator? I mean I know why... well, not really. They say they're "protecting" the interest of their sales force. But the reality is, they're "punishing" the liquidator. They're not solving anything by punishing the liquidator. The surplus will still continue to exist. You can't stop a garage sale. Instead of that nasty, expensive and exhaustive avenue, they could simply say, "You know, we don't agree with this. We don't think it's fair to our sales force and it's undermining our business. So we're going to do something about it and change it. We're going to dry up the surplus out there by buying the discontinued stuff back from now on."

    Not just once. Always.

    Why pull out the big guns? What's wrong with a velvet hammer? Is it just me, or wouldn't it be cheaper than legal fees? Maybe retention would lessen! Public perception would improve. Moral would be better. It would speak volumes if Mary Kay would just say, we're changing things to make transitions easier on our sales force and this is how we're going to do it. In the meantime here are a couple of strategies to help you turn over your soon-to-be outdated inventory. They wouldn't even have to deal with the rest. Nobody would.

    IMO, Mary Kay has switched who "they" are. Maybe that's "the" problem. I say this because people who have worked as a consultant before during and after Mary Kay Ash will say that it's not the same company as it was x amount of years ago. Something intrinsic has "changed" or has ceased to exist and it coincided with Mary Kay Ash's death.

    I think it would pay them (Mary Kay Corporate) in dividends if they didn't spend so much time and effort making Mary Kay a BUSINESS (self gratifying) first. **There is nothing wrong with business. Don't get me wrong about that.** But Mary Kay's focus was faith, family career. God was forefront in her mind and she tried to live like everyone was watching her. (Golden Rule) Her VISION was for women everywhere or "her girls" (family) and not only empowering women, but offering them self-worth by societal standards (important and beautiful). Her career was the everyday tasks associated with creating her vision. From all that came money. Lots of it.

    Mary Kay doesn't operate that way anymore. It's all about the bottom line today. So when you change your focus/vision (her girls) to money (by-product) things begin to erode.

    I think we have to remember the era from which this business was erected. Either Corporate has to do business "the old fashioned way" i.e., the way Mary Kay intended, because really, that's what they purport to be. Or Mary Kay has to change their business model to reflect who they have evolved to be.

    I'm not pontificating, by the way. I'm just sharing my analysis of all the information I know of in order to engage a constructive dialogue.

  32. Part of the problem is people in the world are changing too. These days people are more self-centered and dishonest than in the past.

    Even at gas stations, before you would fill up and then pay, so many places got ripped off that now almost all places are PAY Before you pump?

    Believe it or not around here we still have places, orchards, greenhouse, where there is a basket and you get what you want and leave our payment in the basket. Can you imagine doing that in most cities these days?

    So how can the Company enforce something society can not enforce?

    If we as an independent contractor purchase stuff that we can't sell, I don't expect MK to now buy it back from me. Any more than I think Macy's expects Clinique to repurchase stuff that they can't sell.

    About the liquidators, even if Mk would buy back discontinued product, the liquidators would still sell current line products at a discounted price which could still hurt hard working consultants.

    The Company has the buy back product available to every consultants, if they no longer want to pursue the MK, they do have a way to recoup some of their money.

    As far as the bottom line, every Company must worry about the bottom line, if the Company isn't making money, there will be no Company. Right? I would worry more about a Company that wasn't worried about their bottom line.

    The thoughts on Mary kay is "going down", I don't believe it is and I hope it is not. I do feel that like the rest of the Economy it might be feeling a little bit of a squeeze but who isn't right now??

    More people are living off of credit than ever before, most of us should simply not buy stuff we can not afford to buy. But our society promotes "keeping up with the Jone's". So using the logic of "shut MK down" to save people would be like saying "get rid of credit cards" so one can not charge anything.

    I often get credit card offers with great offers for applying for or switching to their cards (and phone calls with "scripts" to get me to take advantage of this offer)- I haven't had one tell me after the intro offer what the interest rate will sky rocket to. As a consumer it is up to me to man myself with knowledge before putting myself in a position that I will regret.

    Don't we all know the "no interest for a year offer" - how many people get caught not paying it off before the year is up? We all know what happens if you go past the year don't we??

    Personally, I think people are requesting MK to do too much and get too controlling and yet at the same time complain that they don't have enough freedom while in MK.

    I guess we will never be ever be able to keep everyone happy all of the time.

  33. mk4me said, "Part of the problem is people in the world are changing too. These days people are more self-centered and dishonest than in the past."

    Sadly, this statement is so true. And then of course there is this sense of entitlement that goes along with it. People expect things to just fall into their laps. I don't understand it. It's not just in MK; it's in everything. I see it every day in my day job.

    Incidentally, I've been working my MK business very very hard this past month and the results I've been seeing have really paid off! I have more customers, my team is growing, and I feel more confident in myself. I stepped up the effort and now see results. I have not been a consistent worker in the past. What a difference it makes! Now, I'm probably not going to hit my huge sales goal for August, but I'm on the right path to reach them in September.

    I think I got off topic. Oops!

  34. "Part of the problem is people in the world are changing too. These days people are more self-centered and dishonest than in the past."

    I agree. That's why, in order for this business to work for everybody, it has to be a collective effort.

    If everybody is on the same page, (how to conduct the business) then the common good prevails. For everyone.

    I'm not sure how else to express that. :)

  35. Arabella...Let me say that I will say take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY in everything that you do. You say that all are lied to in MK...I don't find this to be true. You know if you are going into any business wouldn't you read the contract and look at what a person is telling you and check it out? That is what I mean. If one doesn't research something and then gets into it and doesn't like it or thinks that they were lied to you can sit around and belly ache about it or you can change it or you can get out of it and move on.

    If you just keep reliving all that bad then does that help you? Does it help anyone really? No I don't think that it does it just makes everyone nasty and bitter. If you keep living in the past what are you doing about your future?

    I get so tired of hearing at MK they made me do this and that they lied to me, they made me purchase all this inventory. Well no one made you do anything. This is where the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY COMES IN. No on can make you do anything that you don't want to do. That is just a fact. I am not saying that anyone was lazy or whatever what I am saying is if you get handed lemons you can either take those lemons and be sour or you can add some sugar and water and make some lemonaid. The choice is yours not anyone elses.

  36. Let me just add also that I am not just talking about MK I am talking about taking PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY in everything that you do. I own another business and guess what I have sales people that come in there and guess what they don't always tell me the truth, do I let it get me NO I just roll with it an move on.

    Have a GREAT DAY

  37. Pink Bren, you seen very passionate. Obviously you have not met the manipulative MK lady that so many have. It's very easy to say read the contract, get on InTouch. Yes, I did do that. BUT you do it AFTER you sign up. Yes I read my agreement. It did not occur to me that my recruiter would out and out LIE to me. I did not get on InTouch to see if she had told me the truth. I read InTouch when I had questions. I did not sit and take a day and a half to read everything on the site. Sorry.

    And telling people our experience does not mean we are reliving it. We do it so that what happened to me does not happen to someone else. Wouldn't you appreciate some warning? I am not bitter, not reliving the anger. I am simply pointing out that not all is as it seems.

    I also do not believe that ALL recruiters lie and manipulate. But there is no way to know what kind of person your recruiter is until you get to know them and sometimes it is too late at that point. I listened to my director/recruiter because I thought she had experience. I did not know that she needed my large initial order to save her unit. I belived her when she said it would be worth it be buy large and get the bonus products. After all, her national also called me and told me that it was in my best interest. And the national should have had selling experience, shouldn't she?? I had no reason to think she would lie to me. No, she did not MAKE me order, but she did lead me to belive that I wouldn't have to struggle to sell it. She did tell me that she would help me with my bookings so I could learn this business. You guessed it; she did not. Is it my fault for being naive? Is naivety a fault?

    Oh, and your lemon/lemonaid analogy. I did do that. I used the product return for almost everything. After all, I am a customer, too, and some of that stuff was not for my skin type or coloring. It worked out well for me. Only later did I find out that consultant's are not encouraged to do that. I had no idea. As I needed something, I returned a few things. I am almost done with all of my inventory. So I didn't really lose anything, monetarily. But I can't say as I will ever have anything good to say about MK. When asked, I tell people to avoid this company. I saw too much deception to ever want anything to do with it.

  38. Arabella says, " I did not sit and take a day and a half to read everything on the site. Sorry."

    Really? You didn't bother to read any of the training material provided by the company on InTouch? Isn't that like starting a job and poo-pooing the training manual? By reading InTouch during downtime at work and at night when I couldn't sleep I was able to learn the business and recognize when someone was making a mistake -- even my director. Not that they were intentional mistakes, but mistakes nonetheless. Mary Kay Ash's autobiography is also great training material. It's information straight from the founder.
    It is the responsibility of the consultant to read these things and want to be educated about the contract she has signed. Directors are busy people and they are human. They make mistakes. You have to be informed.

    Is naivety a fault? Well, it's certainly preventable. Reading InTouch would certainly have cleared up a lot of misdirection you were getting from your director. Then you could confront your director on misinfo (maybe it's information she genuinely got wrong). If she's being deceptive, then call corporate and tell them. Ask for guidance.
    I know people get mad when unethical directors aren't let go. Believe me, where I work there are plenty of corrupt people in management and they don't let them go. If it's somoeone who's made a living for decades with the company it is not so easy to just let them go. Also, it's their livelihood and terminating them is pulling the rug out from under their feet. There has to be extensive investigation and valid reason. It sucks for people who have to answer to these people, but in corporate America, what choice have you? You can quit. Just like in MK, you can quit, but you could just go inactive for a year and find someone you like better.
    It's really about whether you really like doing this or just hate it as a whole. I know people who didn't like their directors so they stopped ordering product for a year and signed with someone else. I have people on my own team who have done this.
    I also know directors who don't like their senior so they became a director themselves and no longer associate with their senior. They were able to recognize that it wasn't Mary Kay they didn't like, but it's the people they were connected to they didn't like. Still others just quit and maybe they naysay to friends and relatives who want to join with MK, but who is anyone to decided for someone? How vain.

    "Oh, and your lemon/lemonaid analogy. I did do that. I used the product return for almost everything."

    Again, really? Making lemonaid was doing things that ultimately cheat the system? I'm not Pink Bren so I don't know exactly what she meant, but I think she may have been referring more to taking the high road of debating if it was MK you don't like or just the people you were associated with at the time. Rather than the low road of cheating, bashing, etc. I think making lemonaid out of lemons would be overcoming a bad director by becoming a director oneself OR sending back product, OR going inactive for a year and finding a new unit. That is making lemons from lemonaid. I understand to a point where you are coming from on this. Really, I do. I was angry with my recruiter and contemplated sending my inventory back, but I did some soul searching. It would have been mean of me to send it back just to induce a chargeback and she was a friend. Just not a good business partner. ;) Sometimes we have to recognize the difference between what is business and what is personal. I decided that ultimately, I like Mary Kay and I enjoy doing the work in entails. So, I just sucked it up and took notes on "what not to do" with my team. ;) Needless to say it irritates me to death when generalizations are made about all who are affiliated with MK.

    "I also do not believe that ALL recruiters lie and manipulate. But there is no way to know what kind of person your recruiter is until you get to know them and sometimes it is too late at that point. I listened to my director/recruiter because I thought she had experience."

    OK. Right I agree. And I feel bad that your director was deceptive... but you contradict yourself here..."When asked, I tell people to avoid this company. I saw too much deception to ever want anything to do with it."

    So, you still tell people that all in MK are deceptive. Hmm.

    I am truly sorry you had a dishonest director, but it seems to me you refuse to acknowledge that everyone is not the same.

  39. OOOH, talk about taking things out of context. Just because I don't want to associate with MK and tell those who ask that I would not get involved with this company does not mean that I think all in MK lie and manipulate. But how are you supposed to know who to trust when so many have horror stories??

    Also, I didn't know that consultants weren't supposed to use the product return system for themselves when I did it. I even called corporate about it and the person I spoke to told me to do it. I recently found out we weren't supposed to on another site. I called MKC again and was told not to do it. I've quit, but not before I exchanged the majority of my initial order.

    And I did read. I read the agreement and I read on InTouch. Just not everything all in one day. As I had questions I asked my recruiter first. And I did read, just not everything. I did not go into this blind. But I did go into it expecting some help, since it was offered.

    With the way you are attacking and twisting my words, pinked off, it seems I am right to steer clear of the MK lady.

    Oh, and making a human mistake and outright lying are two different things. Even the naive can see the difference in the two.

  40. I didn't twist your words at all. I just wrote what you said and gave my perception because your final statement does indeed suggest you think this of all in MK by the contradiction I see in your statements. I even offered up suggestions as to how to make lemonade as I perceived Pink Bren's statement. Didn't mean to put you on the defensive. ;)
    And, I did say that lying and mistakes are two different things and reading InTouch helps to decipher the two.

  41. I agree with Pink Bren, personal responsibility is everything...I'll never forget when I got my first inventory shipment delivered. I knew in my heart that I had ordered too much...on the phone with my director, I KNEW that it was probably policy to get me to order as much as I could, but I got that I could sell all the free product and it would help me in the end.

    Let me say that there was no better motivation in the world to me than unpacking all those boxes and realizing I needed to get rid of that inventory! I needed to really start working my business and I got moving.

    My first skin care class was the main motivator to me to entrench myself in learning this business. (I didn't know any answers.) My unit is based on the opposite end of the country. But I was lucky I guess that I was invited to lots of phone training...one class at 7am every Saturday morning (yuck), andI learned so much from Intouch, ordered some CD's, my director sent me some, etc. I got step by step instructions on how to build my business, and lots of advice via the phone. What I found was MK has some of the best sales training I've ever been through. I'm a 20+ years marketing professional, and I've sat through a TON of sales training classes from some of the best in the world. What impressed me about MK training, and what I held on to, was the customer-focused side of MK. Yes the products are great and ALMOST sell themselves) but customer service is the number one differentiator for MK and I get that. I'm lousy at other things (like booking) but I get that.

    I currently work for a marketing media company, that is all about one-to-one marketing and customer retention. The editors have been spending a lot of time writing about social media...blogs, ning sites, etc...

    I agree that customers today have changed, but not because they're selfish, but because they are empowered. Today, every company better be running an ethical, quality company, because if the customer experience isn't up to snuff, people will blog about it! (sound familiar?)

    These blogs...this one and PT and others are examples of how customers blogging have wrestled incredible power from companies. And the thing is, if MK is listening, they'll learn alot, and if they're smart, they'll teach these unethical directors to change their ways. My point is that MK's customers are talking loudly about them and they need to get into the conversation, or make darn sure they train their directors to keep honest, because it's making them look bad. I have absolutely no doubt that MK corporate logs in to PT every day and reads what's going on. I know they're very smart marketers. (Have you seen all the ads? I was sooooo excited!)

    Again, I was lucky. I wssn't recruited by a barracuda...I was recruited by a life-long friend who was really surprised when I started asking questions about the opportunity. She admitted she would have never even mentioned it to me because she did think it was something I would want to do.

    I have also never been to a meeting. (gasp), and I still did Court of Sales my first year. I've been to a number of conferences though, and those were wonderful, intense training sessions. Maybe because they are more official meetings, what is said and taught are held to higher standards than what I understand from some posts what goes on at those meetings. Come to think of it, it would really be hard for an NSD to stand up at Career Conference and lie.

    I feel bad for people who were misled, their director/recruiter should be ashamed. However they share half the responsiblity and they could have made lemonade. Like I said, large inventory = large motivation!

    My advice to any new consultant...is ask questions. "Do I have to order this?" "What do I need to do before I earn this?" And then follow up on MKIntouch (it's free). I would continue to let corporate know about unethical behavior. YOU may not see the results, but eventually something will happen and things will change.

    We're living in very different times...

  42. Arabella, respectfully, as for not being able to say anthing good about MK, how about the very product replacement system that you have utlized? They don't have to do that - that is very generous, we don't even have to (in most cases) return the product to the Company. It is done on the honor system. the Company trust individuals even though there are many misusing it.

    You mentioned you are actually getting out without much loss of $, but couldn't you use the buyback? I think that would even solve the problem, because if you are using the replacement program, it means you still have product that isn't for your type. Please, understand, I am not trying to be mean but by using it as you are it is almsot stealing from the Company because you still have the product and can sell it plus you have what the Company sent you. The buyback would put money back in your pocket without wasting product.

    My fear is: if individuals continue to misuse the replacement program, the Company just might discontinue it and that would hurt us all when a client does want to return something. It will just put a hurt on the consultant that would have to eat it. Hope you are understanding me?

    I am sorry that you had such a horrible experience in Mary Kay, I am glad at least it wasn't an expensive one.

    I also want to say, I am sure that everything in your order wasn't for your skin type. It would make sense to have a mixture because none of our customers are exactly alike. Your market will vary. (Unless you told your director you were only going to do personal use and the product was just for yourself).

    May I asked how large of an inventory were you talked into placing and what was your idea of how much you wanted to work your Mk when you started?

  43. Ark, Ark, Ark, this is just too funny, talking about lies and stuff, I was just catching up on my pt reading and it seems a pro mk customer decided to leave a post, well she is getting ripped apart but I almost chocked when I read this comment

    triumph said:
    my dear ms Jumi - you are a customer and not a consultant --so you really don't know much about this business at all. Stay a customer --- and if you ever become a consultant, remember what you read here. So when you know the business then you might have some input.
    report abusevote downvote up

    Hmmmmm..... ark, ark, ark ...

    Lazy Gardens and (I believe) Scribbler have never been consultants either, so if you are anti - mk but have never been a consultant, you have an opinion but if you are pro-mk and haven't been a consultant, you get told to shut up and go away....


  44. MK4ME, I used the product replacement program because when I called MKC that is what I was told to do. There must have been a HUGE miscommunication! When I read on another site that it wasn't for consultants to use, I stopped. I was not trying to beat the system, or screw the company. I was merely utilizing what I thought was a provision from the company, something like the buyback system.

    I did not think I could become a millionaire overnight. I did not think I could do this in 2 hours a week. I thought when I went into this business it was for myself but not by myself. Sound familiar?

    I signed up at a party my sister hosted. A DIQ also worked at her job and they were friends and of course the DIQ asked her to "help out". I thought the information sounded good. And there was an incentive to sign that day, $150 worth of free product from the director and whatever else the company sent. The woman giving the demonstration was my sister's coworker's director. She was very well spoken. She told us she sold $3000 worth of product in a month. And so I ordered $3000 worth, plus personal use stuff. I ordered this AFTER she told me she would help me sell this, teach me the ropes. I told her I didn't know many people that would want to host a party. She told me she had some leads we could work. I could shadow her, if I wanted. I wanted! I asked her point blank what were the chances of selling this stuff. She answered that she consistantly sold over $3000 per month. She showed me the gift baskets she kept in her trunk for on the go sales. By the end of the night I was a believer! I bought my package and was very willing to work.

    But getting this woman's help was like pulling teeth. Finally she told me, after I had been hounding her for weeks!, that she didn't really do SCCs. She was a director and she spent her time directing. I asked for some direction. She offered to set me up to go with someone else on a SCC so I could learn. But no one in the unit had a firm appointment. They had leads, not much else.

    So I went to another unit meeting, hoping for some advice. I had paid cash for my initial order, but really wanted to sell it, but how to find customers? So at the new unit meeting someone suggested fish bowls. I tried those and did get some leads, but didn't sell much. And, really, I had never been a salesman before. I knew I needed some training. And reading on InTouch and getting it in person are two totally different things!

    So after months of floundering around, wearing my pins, toting that tote bag everywhere, I stopped trying. I sold what I could to family and friends at my cost. I really didn't have customers, per se. A few people from the fish bowls, but they didn't seem to have much money.

    I don't blame MKC for this. I blame the woman who lied to me. Really, now I wonder how she sold $3000 a month if she didn't hold SCCs. Could it possibly be that it is easier to find suckers every month to order big than to actually work a unit? Is that why there are so many horror stories of frontloading? Is it easier to frontload than to actually work this business as intended?

  45. I just posted this long comment and just in case anyone has any rebuttals or comments, I will answer them as soon as we are able to come home. We are under a manditory evac because of Gustov. Anyone going thru a hurricane knows that it is not the storm itself that hurts, but the no power for weeks after that is really a bummer. That is, for those of us that pack up and leave. Some choose to stay. We are leaving with our prized possessions ( irreplaceable material possessions and pets ) and the hatches have been battoned down. If the house is not standing when we return, the insurance is paid and the agent on standby.

  46. Arabella...I pray that everything is OK. I too live where the hurricane could hit. I live about 30 miles from Corpus and if they tell us to get out I will too. I pray that everyone is safe through this one the report this morning says that it could possibly be a cat 5 that is a BIG ONE. Just know that you are yours are in my prayers and everyone in the path.

    Have a GREAT DAY

  47. Arabella - please realize I wasn't accussing you, I did understand from your posts that you had been told by the Company, I was just pointing out the bigger picture, because you stopped when you found out, but there are others (and we probably have all seen them on pt misusing the system and thinking it is funny and a big joke cuz they are getting back at the evil MK empire. Imho, there behavior is evil because it is going to end up hurting innocent people that did nothing to them, but I guess to them if people get hurt in the fallout long as they are ok, it is justifable).

    Once again, please know not all of us directors are like that, I all my years as I director I have never had any come in with more than $1800 (perhaps, I am still not sure about 1 $2400) but it was not because I was selling it, trust me on that.

    Last Seminar year I only had two that came in with $1800. One because her adpotee director went over the inventory with her and the girl placed her order before we talked and the other decided from reading it was what she wanted to do and I actually really tried to talk her down just becaue she is so shy and has some health issues that I didn't want her to be looking at loads of inventory if it took her awhile to get started.

    We do Coutny fairs, business expos, health fairs, and we get tons of leads that we share with our consultants that need leads.

    So I just want you to know that there are some of us that do help our unit and truly care about their success.

    I honestly don't understand why there are any that operate as I do. Because by treating my unit members as I do, they build there business and make money, order when they need to and stay with our unit and MK.

    If I treated them poorly, eventually they would quit or leave my unit to go to another where they think there is better support. Be always turning over people, one must always be hussling to find the next "superstar" and then to make production by new consultants first orders, and that is where the trouble begins. It really only makes sense to me, to retain and build people and continue to add new team members.

    It is just plain common sense to me.

  48. Dear Arabella and Pink Bren -

    Prayers are with you for your safety!

    Please keep us posted.

    Pink hugs, mk4me

  49. Yes, they're valid. Too bad the person who posted them went about it in such a way as to make themselves look bad.

    I found this article, which was not written by Tracy:


    Check out their perspective, please. There's no ranting; just laying out the facts along with some personal stories.

    (I'm gothchiq; Blogger uses my real first name when I post though.)


For Further Reading...

This Week On Pink Truth - Click Here
Pros and Cons of Mary Kay - Read or Contribute or Both!
First Post - Why I Started This Blog
The Article I Wrote For ScamTypes.com (here) (there)
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