Wednesday, October 21, 2009

The Humor found in Hypocrisy

I would like to do more demonstrations but I would like to start with the Article about the TOP lawsuit.

I have been reading some of the comments from the negative site and actually found it amusing. Why? Because they want to have it both ways. I have seen so many things that conflict each other I will try to articulate and not babble but it isn't going to be as smooth as I would like it to be..

Let me start with my opinion. Am I glad MK went after TOP, yes, for my sake and the sake of any consultant. If we are running our business properly, not over buying and selling our products to our clients, we have no need for places like TOP. When a director or consultant that purchased their unit, a car, etc dishonestly.. then she is able to liquidate product and put it out on the market where clients of other good and honest consultants may see it and want to purchase it off that site because it is cheaper? Who is being harmed by this? IMHO, the honest consultant or director running her business by the rules of our agreement. Secondly, actually the person liquidating to TOP because TOP pays them sooo little they are basically screwing those who according to the complainers have already been screwed but TOP is making plenty of money at the expense of the people selling product to them. Many pt posters think it is so great that the owners of TOP make so much money running such a good business - hmmm .. why is it okay for Top to make money as a Company screwing the liquidation consultant them giving them squat for their product, if they are making so much money, then why didn't they pay more for it to the consultant selling it? But pters have so many problems because Mary Kay, the Company operates to make money??

Thought... if there is no place to liquidate products, maybe the dishonest consultants/directors will stop buying too much product because the only way to get rid of it would be to sell it the way the rest of us do. Interesting thought, huh?(that would be by facials, parties, catalogue sales,etc.. imagine that, all of us doing it right.) - They way the Company was set up to operate.

To show what I am saying here is a quote from one of the posters, vintage gold,
"not to mention that many Directors who were "faking it till they made it" bought their Directorships by liquidating with TOP. All those fake Directors have no one to sell to now." (does anyone think I feel sorry for them - ummm not...)

Now here is a quote and well, am I the only one that thinks she sounds unstable?
StrikeAPoseRosie |2009-10-20 13:20:25
"Girls- it is time for ACTION! What can we do??? Start an all day calling spree to directors telling them how corrupt their company is? Demoralize the ranks? Secretly attend meetings and ask directors questions in front of all the guests that point out MK's biggest flaws? Sneak around career conference and hang up signs in the stalls that proclaim the awesomeness of PT? Go to meetings and lurk around outside sticking fliers with MK facts on the windshields of all the cars in the parking lot? Flood face book for a day with messages about MK and MLM crimes? Call MK Corpse all day and night and flood their lines? Start ordering fake orders on Directors websites? Let's get original and DO SOMETHING ALREADY!!! Other ideas???
how about sending anonymous letters to the HUSBANDS to *check their family's credit rating* I know a bunch of Directors that would crap a brick if their husband knew about their secret credit cards. That would be fun...." scary

Nice... they are mad at Mary Kay Corp. for shutting down TOP, so then lets go do all sorts of mean things to any consultant and director we can Internet stalk because we aren't happy with corporate so let's go hurt the consultants?

I thought consultants had to be at least 18 to sign an agreement but these ideas sound like they came from a 5 grader.

What is another major complaint on that site? There are no really clients...except whenever r.b. defends anything - it is they have an almost NIQ, Cadillac drivers, Court of Sales Winners, who sold lots of product, very who were these people selling to if there were no real clients. Read enough over there and you have them saying... oh I sold alot of product....I just couldn't make any money...
then I couldn't sell anything, no one wanted Mary Kay... and then the one I liked best, oh, I could sell the product and made lots of money but I just didn't like not being told the truth...probably good because if a accountant or cpa had to admit not being able to make money with a product we buy at a 50% discount... one might wonder how credible she would be on any other point. so... now I read this statement:
"First, I'm amazed with how much $ TOP made! Wow now that's a successful business plan!" - now if TOP made that much money from the product they purchased from ex consultants.... obviously there were people aka real customers that are ready and willing to buy it, because if no one was willing to buy it, TOPS wouldn't be making any if most of these top customers couldn't get it on TOP - they would be buying it from a REAL consultant who was doing things the right way.

R.B. says that the only reason MK wants to shut down TOP is because of recruiting... I have had unit members come to me and want to know what to tell there clients when they stumble on TOP and say that they are cheaper and they are afraid they will loose their clients. I haven't had one consultant come to me afraid she was going to loose a recruit over it.... so.... say what you want... but it is hurting sales far more than recruiting. And then if people do get expired crap - then it tarnishes our reputation and I don't like that.

Before this gets too long, in closing... another comment, "I did not get the impression that they were affiliated with Mary Kay in ANY WAY. Only a complete moron would think that they are" of course there is more on this but the point is that if you READ the TOP site it says it is not affiliated with MK..(!!if one reads it!!)..stay with me... many of them are mad because TOP can't tell consultants about about the 90% buyback that MK offers... why should they have to... it is written on the MK website, on lots of MK info.... I don't hear pt'ers calling their posters morons for not having read the Mary Kay website.

Wow, if you read pt long enough, for every point they prove, keep reading because it will be unproved soon enough.


  1. This still makes me sad. TOP already had many visible disclaimers stating they were not affiliated with MK. People who can't use them any more will simply turn to other liquidators or Ebay. The only thing I really agree with is telling them not to sell expired products. This family may now go bankrupt, which is way too heavy of a punishment.

  2. I hate to answer postings like this because I dont know who to agree with. I have to side with Miranda on this one because TOP didnt say they were a part of MK and I do feel bad for them. They were for all intents and purposes one of the better liquidators out there. However MK4me presents an outstading defense! If all of the liquidators are shut down the only ones left are ebay and I would not want to buy cosmetics from them because you dont know the expiration date and I have seen many people on the net (not on PT) complain about cosmetics MK and non mk cosmetics that they got which were cakey and out of date.
    I blame the purchaser for that one they took a chance and Im sure they knew that there was a chance of getting damaged or out of date product. What is hilarious and sad at the same time is that even if PT accomplished something (in their minds) by warning some poor director or consultant about the evils of MK they wont be happy until they bring the company down.
    There are a LOT of honest consultants and directors out there and my heart tells me that the bad things that are being printed hurts them and harms them when people do this internet research. There are two sides to every story and believe me although MK is a business they do not want to encourage turnover in units or directors for that matter.
    No worthwile sales organization wants that! MK has the best and I mean the best direct sales training I have ever seen when it comes to a home business and I will write more about that part later. MK for me is right though if TOP was doing that well there is a market for the product which
    PT seems to deny.

  3. Also, legally far as I know, if you buy something, and you paid for it fair and square, then you have the right to turn around and sell it. Whether people will do business with you and sell you stuff based on what you offer for it is up to them. (They will accept low prices if they think that otherwise they will get no money at all, which seems to be the case with the ex consultants selling their products to TOP.) The product can be past the rolling year send-back date and still have another year left before it expires.

    Look at it like this: If I buy a Lip Service dress and I determine that I can no longer use it, and I turn around and sell it on Ebay (or to some hypothetical liquidator of Lip Service clothing), Lip Service doesn't have the right to sue me and take the money I made from that sale, because I already paid them for the dress. I now own it and can do with it what I please, including selling it for a different price than I originally paid for it. I forget the name of the law that governs that.

  4. Colleen, the good thing about us here is we can have a different view point and still like and respect each other. If we all felt and thought the same, I would like to pick up and run with a thought Miranda put out there. Will this family experience some rough financial times, possibly. Does the thought of thata make me happy? Absolutely not. But.... when they started the business (at least the part of selling MK, they knew at the very beginning they were on shaky ground....(they did know) they felt the money the could make until they got stopped or got away with it was worth it. The good part is since they have opened, they have added several other lines and items which seem to be doing well in their own right, so there is every chance they will go on and continue to have a very lucrative business with the products they have now and others they may add.

    That said, I would rather see one family have some rough times that knew they were taking a big gamble then the hundreds/thousands of consultants and directors who (LIKE ME) LIVE off their mk earnings have people like those on pt and TOP trying to shut down Mary Kay. That is there goal, you read it in every article on Mary Kay. They can say whatever they want over there, I conduct my business and run my unit with dignity and honesty. My concern is for others. I am not self centered, selfish person. I would give anyone (even an enemy) the shirt of my back. - I get called the "goody two shoes, the peace-maker, the "good girl", the nice one. Have I ever done anything wrong? I am sure I have, but if I realize it I aplogize and make amends.

    I work with many honest directors. My unit is filled with wonderful woman... and surprise ..those that aren't "my kind" of people usually don't last long.

    The thing I wish the F.D.A. would do would be to not allow the second hand sale of products. I know there are some states that don't... that would elevate all of the products that are on ebay and on the liquidators.

    If you really think about it. If some had something you were going to be putting on your face or on your body not stored properly are you sure you would want to try it.

    What I love about this site is we can express our opinions and learn and perhaps take a look at things from a different angle.

  5. Shucks.. from reading pt, I learned that directors and consultants would buy product to get to their units or cars and then liquidate it... call me naive but I still in shock that people would go to that extreme and expense for that little recognition.

    Recruiting false consultants? what do they really think they are going to make really productions? I honestly don't see why anyone would want to do that to themselves.

    And using someone's credit card without their permission is a crime, A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.... when I read these, all I could do was shake my head. and... be so grateful that I was trained by great nationals and directors and have never been exposed to this type of behavior. I guess there are some advantages to not having alot of directors around one to work with. When you are sort of a one woman show and you are doing things right, then those you are training are also conducting themselves with honest and ethcis because they will follow the lead of the leader.

    I am disgusted when I read that a director ordered a new consultant $3600 w/s worth of product two weeks before a packaging change. There is no excuse for that.. okay, I don't feel like getting on my soapbox today on what I have read on pt that the poster said they done whilst in MK - because it just totally and absolutely disgusts me.

    and Colleen, I still like Miranda and I think she still likes me, so speak your mind.

  6. I've read those comments on PT about directors using consultants credit cards w/o their knowledge too and all I could think was "HUH?" You're right, MK4ME, using someone else's credit card w/o permission is a criminal offense and the person could go to jail.

    If that's REALLY going on and it happened to those women on PT, why didn't they call MK and report their director? Why didn't they go to the police? And most importantly, why in the world does their director have their credit card info in the first place?

    I have NEVER given my credit card info to my director. And now with being able to assign orders with payment to our directors at month end, there's never a reason to give her your credit card.

    If a consultant saw charges on her credit card statements that weren't hers and she did nothing about them, then she's stupid. Plain and simple. Stupid. There's simply no excuse for not taking action.

    To be honest, I don't believe it happens. In my opinion, that's just one more "pink truth" that's not true.

  7. oh dear, here I go, and how about recruiting their cat and dog?? lol... hmmm since when do there cats and dogs have social security number?? or are they making up social security numbers? Which is also a CRIME.. Criminal offense....

    and there is no reason for a consultant to come in with $4800 w/s worth of inventory.... just because ONE national promotes a Pearl order doesn't mean the rest of us do. Even the Company literature does not support it. In my entire, I mean entire time in MK (I played mk once for a year or so and moved and didn't choose to continue) and then have been around for 15+ years now have never ever had a consultant come in with more than $1800 and that wasn't at my coaxing.. it was their call. I would rather see them start and build and always keep selling and building.

    The other thing I realize, they are a few nationals I am not very fond of... it is funny that they are the ones pt quotes almost always... notice that of all the nationals they quote there is only a handful of the ones that "talk larger than life" many of the great wonderful MK like nationals never get quoted. Why???

    Anne Newbury said there was never a need to start with more than $600 and grow it. And she was one best of the rest. Why have I never seen her quoted.

    ugg... okay, enough..

  8. OMG! Anne was my NSD too! And I was at her Team Leader Retreat and about fell on the floor when she said that. My director believes consultants should come in with 1800-3000 and I completely disagree with it. It has caused many arguments between us. People can come in with 600, but my director feels like it doesn't set them up for success because they don't get to take a profit fast enough because they need to build their inventory to 3600. That's about the time I stop listening.

  9. One more thing . . . you never see Anne quoted over on PT because Anne did it all the Mary Kay Way. She worked her business according to the Golden Rule. She personified integrity. She didn't take the easy way out. If you wanted to know Mary Kay, but weren't around when she was still around, all you had to do was be in Anne's presence. Personally, I don't think Anne was one of the best. I think she WAS the best.

  10. lol of course we are friends. I would be insane to expect everyone to agree with me all the time.

    That said, I did get prickly with a baby bat at the bar last night for his unenlightened opinion on women's rights. When someone thinks their personal beliefs should govern how I live, then I *will* get in their face.

  11. Darci,
    Anne Newbury along with Dalene White are two of the best! I think this is one of the reasons before people join MK they should really read her books so they can get a sense of who the woman is. We live in an instant society and this quick gratification has been the downfall of many a company. There is NOTTHING wrong with starting at an 1800-3600 level IF and ONLY if you are going to do this full time! The problem is if you dont know what you are going to sell it can be a catastrophe. I honestly think that if I were to start off at that level I would get 2400 worth of skin care and basic neutral glamour. This level is nothing new they were preaching this in the 80s but it was geared towards women (and this was easier to do in the eighties and early nineties) women who were doing 3-5 classes a week. The problem with these levels is that some directors are ordering for their consultants and have no idea of what they need or who their clients are. I have heard at least 5 times or more the most frustrated consultants were the ones who got stuck with tons of perfume or limited edition items. I dont hear that with people getting stuck with tons of skin care. It takes more time but cant some of these directors see that if a new consultant starts off with 600 or less you can teach her to make her money back and build. Frankly you dont need 3600 to make a profit you can take a profit immediately or a smaller one if you are not going to do 3-5 classes a week or tons of facials. I think someone is better off starting with 600 or less and recruiting little by little and getting smaller checks and then gaining the confidence to learn what they are doing.


    This blog (I ran into by accident surfing the net on my lunch hour)is quite interesting a lot of pro-mk profit making people on here. Its not that long a 10 minute read.

  13. That was Anne's thing about the 600 wholesale level to start. Any new consultant even if she just sold a little would see product move and see the value of inventory for herself. I think it's more valuable for a consultant to build that belief for herself about inventory than for me to tell her.


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