OY! I just love having a place to respond to each and every thing posted "over there" in PT land.
I wish that everyone would stop talking about "executive income". How many housewives, moms, and other ladies are really expecting executive income from any job?
I like to talk about "career income". The income that I earn in Mary Kay is more than I have earned anywhere else during my working years and it beats what I could earn elsewhere now. The money supports my family and pays bills.
The overwhelming majority of women who begin a MK business do not do so to earn Executive income, or even career income. Most are looking for a little extra cash on the side, and that is not hard to do in this business, especially since consultants working at part time and hobby levels have very few expenses. They rarely attend the bigger/more costly events like Seminar, they do not do a lot of driving around, they do not have a lot of customers to present with Gifts w/Purchase, etc. I even started my biz just to earn extra income. When my business took off immediately, it became clear what I needed to do.
I have a selling unit. We just earned another car with hardly any new consultant production (we have had no new stars the past 2 quarters, and maybe one qualified). We have not focused on recruiting and our base unit finished the car early. There is proof that a selling base unit will support and car and unit production. I am personally on target for the Court of Sales, and we will be on target for a unit club by Dec. 31st.
Sorry, posted this on the wrong link from days ago . . . just want to introduce myself!
First time here!
I've been with Mary Kay since July 1 and I can truely say I am enjoying myself. It's giving me the extra money I need. I don't need to get rich . . . just pay a few more bills.
I have been reading all the blogs about MK, plus PT, and must say that the site bores me now. Once can only last so long without an encouraging word or balanced perspective. It's nice to hear a man's perspective. Way to go!
As for the donation debate. I have participated in Angel Tree for the past 15 years and RARELY have I found an angel on the tree for older children . . . say 12 and up. They seem a bit forgotten in toy drives, don't you think?
Speaking the real truth, the reason I keep talking about the exeutive income is because I was told that it could be done working 15-20 hours a week. No, I did not start MK to make that income, but I did expect to make more than a hobby income. I did expect to make enough to pay for insurance and other perks that I had from my other job. And I expected it because I was told that by more than 1 director, including my own, and a national.
Speaking the real truth, the reason I keep talking about the exeutive income is because I was told that it could be done working 15-20 hours a week. No, I did not start MK to make that income, but I did expect to make more than a hobby income. I did expect to make enough to pay for insurance and other perks that I had from my other job. And I expected it because I was told that by more than 1 director, including my own, and a national.
We (wife and I) were told this too. No talk of saturation. We were told by many directors and nationals (at oh so many events) that there was no barrier to “executive income” if only you have the interest and willingness to work.
There is no barrier to executive income other than hard work, God's blessings, and timing. We do not always get what we want when we want it, but if you want a great income in Mary Kay, it is possible. I truly have never had someone in my unit who has done things the right way, over time, who hasn't made money in Mary Kay. For every case where I have seen someone fail to make it in MK, I have been able to find the reasons why when I examined the situation, the facts, and their story.
Now, I don't think that Exec. Income is possible in 10-15 hours per week unless you are talking about a NSD who built big long ago and who is now coasting into retirement. I am sorry if someone mis-spoke or flat out mislead you both.
While I know that you think that whatever your experience was, that it is the norm, I disagree.
I was never promised any amount of income, nor do I promise any to anyone else. I can show them what is possible, what I earn, etc., but I do not promise anything. I tell them that it depends on them and how hard they work, more specifically the number of appointments that they hold and the number of clients that they build.
Let me be clear, this business is not always easy, I have worked hard. But I can honestly say that I've worked a lot harder for a lot less money and freedom.
This week alone, I had 4 appts. that all had to postpone due to illness, death, etc., but I've still sold over $500. All while preparing for a family visit this weekend (deep house cleaning), church work, Christmas shopping, Bible study group, grocery shopping, banking, post office trips to mail product, lunch with a friend and her child, decorating, gift wrapping, and watching my child. I normally sell between $500-1000 per week.
I am happy with my career. No where else could I get this deal.
Blessed, I have to address your comment about saturation. I do not believe that the MK market is saturated and I base that own my experience, and of those women that I know and work with. I pick up new clients routinely through the website, 800 number and referrals. When I joined MK I lived in a very small town and my director, her sister and her mother lived there as well. I think at one time there were 8 consultants in her church alone, and several attended mine, but I still had a great customer base and reorder business, and regularly held appointments. After moving to a new town years ago, I built another thriving customer base. I have consultants all over the county and they all seem to be able to build at least some clients.
And as for the comment about most consultant's rarely attending the bigger events, my director told me it was a must. Show up to go up!! Even though I was not making nearly enough to pay for it out of my MK money.
And you have to buy the gift with purchase BEFORE your customer orders so you can give it to them. Remember, you can't sell from an empty cart! Gotta have it in stock. And the company promotes the gift with purchase. So you kinda have to give it or you will look very unprofessional.
Speaking the real truth, how long have you been a director? I have never heard such things from any other director and I have spoken to quite a few. They all push the extra events. My SIL is a consultant. She lives in the northeast. It was pushed where she lives. My aunt lives in the deep south. It was pushed where she lives. I live no where near either of them and it was pushed where I live, too. I've never heard a director not encourage her consultant's to go.
I probably should have said "lack of God's blessings" in that earlier post...
What I mean by that is that if someone really did everything right, OVER TIME, and they could not get anything going, maybe MK is not where God wanted them. I've not had personal experience with someone in that situation, as I've said, I've seen other reasons why their business did not make it.
Judi, I've been a director for almost a decade, and never been in jeopardy of losing my unit, just to let you know that I am a solid director.
I agree that training and events are important TO A DEGREE. I think that in this day and time, we get a lot of training via email and internet that in years past, we had to show up somewhere to get. I also believe that motivation and excitement are powerful and that at least occasionally you need to get your battery charged by attending a live event.
I am very careful in what I promote to my unit, because I know that if I promote it, they trust me and think that they should attend. Because of that I carefully consider anything that I share with them regarding upcoming events.
As far as PCP, I do think everyone should participate, what I meant was that a consultant with only a few clients would have little expense in that program, since we pay per client and per pack of 5 gifts. Whereas I enroll well over 100 clients each quarter and give away lots of the premiums.
My NSD knows how I feel about events. I expect them to be VALUABLE to me and my unit, or I do not attend.
Hey all, just wanted to share some good news. We just finished up requalifying for the Saturn. Yup, December 14 and we are done. And we have had No production from new unit members in the last two months. Just like speaking the real truth, I have a selling unit. I am on target personally for Court of Sales and we are close to being on target for unit club. Not one penny was put in to just get it done.
judi, just like speaking the truth, I do not encourage all unit members to attend Seminar. If you have a someone that really wants to do this as a career and make big money, I do believe it does show the potential of what you can achieve. However, if I have a parttimer that is really looking just for lunch money and extra for her family, I think it is too large of an expense. So you have two directors of the people posting here that share the same feelings.
speaking the truth, I couldn't agree with what you say any more than I do. Half the time when reading your posts, I have to look to see who wrote it because it sounds like I could have easily written it.
I make great money and don't work my butt off and I absolutely love what I do. As for saturation, I don't find it to be a problem in our area either.
P.S. I was out Christmas shopping and when I came home the production was in. Now is that not exciting??
(What no "dialing for dollars" on the last day of the month, what no hampster wheel)?? - Imagine that, if you have a unit that is selling the product, they need product.
My unit is the BEST!!
The open house totals being reported have been awesome, the grand days have been awesome. They are selling this product and all of them have clients that just can't wait to buy the mineral foundations.
Gotta love it, noone can make money in MK, right?? So why is it when one of the poster said this in part of her post, did noone jump on her and say she must have been lying?
On PT: Yes, I was making between $3000-$5000 per month for the past year. So I shocked everyone, even my so called "good friend" NSD...Blah, Blah,
(Oh, I just thought of the answer, she was doing it dishonestly, so instead of cleaning up her act and doing it right, she quit)
Regarding Mary Kay and executive income: Since each of us is self employed, there is NO barrier to executive income except for time and work. Lets define executive income, for purposes of argument, as anything over $10,000 per MONTH. I personally do not see anyone in Mary Kay less than a year making this kind of income per month. Also, when they refer to the 10 to 15 hrs per week, that means SELLING HOURS-- the time directly in front of customers. Fifteen hours a week would be FIVE classes of three hours each. If the average class is three hundred in sales, then times five that would be fifteen hundred a week in sales times four weeks in a month is sales of six thousand a month, or profit of three thousand per month from sales alone. That is executive income to many women, just not the 10k per month we mentioned earlier. However, obviously many directors' checks show that level, especially after they have been in a while.
The beautiful thing about Mary Kay is that, once you have built your business to that level, the company is NOT going to come in and promote someone that you have trained to be your boss and phase you out after all your hard work. Mary Kay is simple and it takes integrity, hard work and belief. Once you have been trained by Mary Kay you will be in demand in the marketplace, even if you don't realize it. Our training is the BEST on the planet. We also need to be careful not to define other's success by our own definition: If all she wants is to make 100.00 per month, then that IS success to her. And if you want, like I do, to make 10,000 per month, then we are going to have to work at it a little longer to build to that level. We may have to learn additional skills such as recruiting and training others and motivational techniques and, dare I say it, better selling skills... BUT IT CAN BE DONE-- OTHERS HAVE DONE IT AND SO CAN YOU!!!
Hello again, I commented on your other comment, and already featured you on the main page. Click Here
STRT,
OY back! good points
Blessed,
a very happy and joyful Christmas Holiday to you as well
love4mk,
welcome and thank you.
Judi,
Hi! I hope that you are beginning to see that there are people that ARE doing it the way that it is supposed to be done. We all feel the pain of your experience and hope that you can find healing here!
Your gentle participation here is always so welcome!
Wow this is great a great area its nice to see some positive directors around here. I think the Myst has channeled you all!! This gives us consultants hope to be honest directors.
MK4me, I want to congratulate you on achieving the Saturn production on the 14th of the month. That is the way the company designed for it to be done. Out of curiosity, how many other women have you helped earn the use of a career car? Way to go and Merry Christmas!
Mk4me I forgot to congratulate you on winning the car again and kudos to your unit. I know I shouldnt be saying this but it seems like I see more happy GP drivers than I do Caddie...I guess its less pressure..no offense to any caddie driver reading here.
David, I never doubted that there was someone doing it right. I am sure there are a few. But I do not think there are any making executive income (6 figures is what I was told) working 15-20 hours per week. I like how someone said that's 15-20 hours in front of someone. What about the hours getting up to a facial? Is that just hidden? Why the deception? Is that like saying some are making 6 figures before charge backs, expenses, etc? Maybe that's what my director meant when she said it was possible to make 6 figues in only 15-20 hours. Of course when you deduct all the many expenses and add up actual hours worked things look a lot different. I thought that since we were supposed to be putting God first then those in charge would not have been so very deceptive with their description of this business.
I am sorry if I sound bitter. I just wish someone would have stated the whole truth.
judi, please understand that is what I think most of us here are saying, we are sorry you ended up in an area such as you did but many of us do speak the truth, my speach is, "if you think you are going to become a consultant and make a ton of money right away, think again because then this isn't going to be for you." It takes time and you if you want to have a successful business you are going to have to build it one client at a time.
I say this right in the interview. Because I never want someone to come back and say to me you said I could make x in x and no two people are going to have the same results.
David forgive me if I sound harsh this time, do to my comment what you wish to, its your blog..
But Judi sometimes I think that your disappoitment has more to do with your own unrealistic expectations than it does with you having been lied to. Its as if you had the wrong idea of what you were supposed to experience with this business. Some of that was the fault of your directors and other leaders, but i think, by reading some of your comments, some of it was your own belief system.
You say: " David, I never doubted that there was someone doing it right. I am sure there are a few. But I do not think there are any making executive income (6 figures is what I was told) working 15-20 hours per week. I like how someone said that's 15-20 hours in front of someone. What about the hours getting up to a facial? Is that just hidden? Why the deception?"
What do you mean by "the hours getting up to a facial"? Are you talking about the time spent going to or preparing for a facial or class? And if so, then that may be part of your disappointment right there because you may have the wrong idea of what kinds of things you will be compensated for.
The time you spend gettting ready to work is just that..time. Its not supposed to be included in your pay, especially not when you are just starting a business. The preparation is NOT the compensated work. Yes it is work none the less, but it is not the time that is to be included in calculating your pay. This is not deception to not include this information, it is just understood that it is part of the sweat equity you will be putting in. Of course it takes time to prepare for the actual work (time in front of customers), but I dont see how you should be upset about that, it is just part of it.
Even on a regular nine to five, you dont expect to get compensated for the time spent driving to work or getting ready to go to work, or for having to find a sitter. The pay does not start until you start doing your job. So why shouldnt my hours start in MK when I am acutally with a customer? In my opinion the 15-20 hours in front of customers, ARE the acutally hours worked.
I know there is time that I must spend on the phone, or talking to potential customers to make sure the class or facial happens, but that is just part of it and if you are upset about that, then that is a horse of a different color altogether.
I remember you saying once that you are a stay at home mom. I dont know when was the last time you worked outside of the home, but I am sure that you did not go to your boss and ask to be compensated for your commute to and from work and for all the things you have to do to be able to get to work. You would have been laughed at. So why do you expect it to happen in Mary Kay?
There are some things that you have to be willing to do. The difference between some that are successful (in any area) and those that arent is that the successful ones are willing to do what the others wont. They will put in the extra, unbillable hours, and do things that they probably wont see a return on right away. I dont believe that this was "hidden" from you with a deceptive agenda, but maybe someone assumed that you understood it.
But even in their assumptions they still failed you
And I am so tired of all the executive income, real income minuse expenses argument. A salary is a salary. It is the money that was generated by your activity plain and simple. Salary does not refer to the amount you have left over after taxes, expenses etc. Even on a regular job, your salary per year is what is given to you based on the hours each day that you plan to work. If you apply for a loan or credit, they will ask you to list your salary per year BEFORE taxes and deductions. If you make $60 grand a year then that is what you will report not what you actually take home. The salary is what is given to you by your company or employer. What you do with it after that is your own business (the amount of taxes you take out, insurance, household expenses etc. ) But the salary is the bottom line that they have agreed to pay you. Noone has a problem with this expect with Mary Kay, but its really the same logic.
And just for the record Judi, there are more than "a few" of us doing this business right.
I also asked you this on a previous thread, you may have answered already and maybe I just have not seen it. But you say that the only reason you stay in MK is because you like the products and you get them at cost, because you would never pay full price for them. Then in other places on this blog you have said that you are NOT a consultant and that you have moved on from MK. I also remember you saying that you are not active or actively ordering. So how can you still get your products at cost if you are not an active consultant?
I think that you are genuinely curious, and since I am as well I will allow it to stand.
Judi,
Please read FP's comment and mine here thoroughly before responding.
We are not criticizing you.
We DO think that it is possible that you were led to believe that you would make 6 figures with only 15-20 hours of effort.
What we are trying to figure out, is whether you were INTENTIONALLY misled or if you misunderstood and thus were UNintentionally misled.
I am also still curious about how you spent the time you spent.
When you say you spent 3 hours on the phone everyday, how many phone calls was that? Although I can't understand it, I know that my wife can talk to ONE person for three hours. (not for MK, just in general)
So, going back to the 'working your butt off' equation, how many people did you get yourself in front of in those 15-20 hours?
Finally, no matter how deceptive some individuals were, it is not fair for you to say...
"I thought that since we were supposed to be putting God first then those in charge would not have been so very deceptive with their description of this business."
We ALL know that people who wish to defraud others will use ANYTHING they can to do so. I have had homeless people that ask for money, and when they find out I am a Christian, they change their "pitch" to, "hey brother, doesn't God say you should help me".
No matter what you do in life, you have to weigh what people are telling you against what you know to be true about God. Just because someone tells you they are a Christian does not mean they are, or that they have decided to put God first in their dealings.
The fact that someone claiming to love God does bad things does not mean that people that love God are doing the same thing.
Please understand that we are not trying to "gang up on you" or "make fun of you", we are just a little confused about what your experience was. Thanks in advance for clearing it up.
Some of my unit members are far enough away from me that they attend another meeting but we are close enough to get together occassionally. One night we did a phone call night in my home, we all had cell phones and they made the calls and I listened so I could help. One of my girls, who had been frustrated with her bookings not holding was calling one of her leads. I was listening, she was great, but she had to keep selling her, over and over, I finally looked at her and signaled, cut it.. When she got off the phone, I told her first her presentation was great (it was) but told her she was working "too hard" she had to keep overcoming objection after objection. She probably would have gotten her booked if I had let her keep going. My point for telling this is: I explained to her, yes you may have to overcome some objections but when you have to put that much effort and work into getting it book, chances are it will not hold.
Yes, you must use some objection overcomers, however, it reaches a point if it is just a challenged to get her to book, you will probably win the challenge but end up "porched". If someone isn't interested, I am not going to stress myself out.
My unit member was very happy to hear what I had to say because some how in her mind she had made it "a failure" if she couldn't get the caller to book. The objective truly was to get the caller to book and hold.
It has been a few months since our fun phone call night and I can tell everyone her booking to holding ratio has gone way up.
So long and short of it, one can "work their butts off and spend alot of time" but it doesn't mean it is productive time.
Judi, I hope this helps a little understand about time spent too!
Ok, first, I am not a moron. I do not expect DRIVING time to be included in the hours worked, or the time it takes to shower and dress. I am talking about warm chattering, phone calls, everything you have to do to get that first booking. Everything you have to do to get that second booking. Not driving, not loading the car, not getting dressed. Please don't insult me with that explaination. When I say I spent 3 hours on the phone in this business, I mean 3 hours on the phone. I put out fish bowls and every day would call each and every number. I had a script that I followed, not word for word, but a base script. I called beautitians, anyone in the beauty world. I gave discounts and free product to any who would provide names and phone numbers, referals. I warm chattered.
Let me also say that I DID NOT expect to make a six figure income. I was not naive enough to believe that it was possible in so little time. I expected to take home, after taxes, after expenses (samples, section 2, baskets, decorations, normal business expeses; after all, it's not how much you make but how much you get to keep) at least $300. I NEVER did this for more than 3 weeks in a row.
I do believe I was intentially misled. I am not an idiot. I am not ugly. I worked hard. I may not have a college education, but I am no dummy by any means. I hate it when I hear that it didn't work because of something I did either wrong or just flat out didn't do.
My director placed my first order. In that order were quite a few items that she ordered in bulk that had packaging changes mere weeks after I received them. They no longer looked like what was advertised in the Look Book. She knew they were changing. Why order so much?
She also told me that the AVERAGE class (3-5 people) bought $600 worth of product. Holding 3 average classes should have done what I needed it to do. But you do not make a 50% profit if you do it like I was encouraged by my director to do. Order samples, books, CDs, make baskets, go to meetings, conferences, all the extra classes to learn the business.
I feel I was thouroughly deceived. I spoke to a few directors, a national, others in my unit. I asked a bunch of questions. I questioned what exactly was meant by AVERAGE attendance. How often did the SCC hold, how often did the hostess invite guests who actually showed up. How much did people REALLY spend at a class. Everybody only gave me the positive. No one said how rare a SCC actually held, much less had guests. Then I started getting the news letter and saw how little people were selling. Our big seller was selling $150 a week. That's not a job. Who can live off of the profit of $150 retail?
I was told I wasn't motivated enough. I was told to listen to more CDs. I was told I needed to work harder. I was told to hire a babysitter so I could work more. I was told to hire an assistant so I could get more done. And I was, of course, told to keep ordering. To not let a single quarter go by without ordering something. I did not do that. I ordered when I got $400 retail. Usually when friends ganged up and bought together. Thank goodness I at least know how to handle money. I can understand how some will continue to order if their director is encouraging it. This person is like a mentor. You want to believe them since they are above you on the ladder of success. They must know what they are talking about, right? I feel used.
And the reason I keep speaking out is because of what happened to me happened to two others that I know who live states away from me. What are the changes that they were told almost word for word the exact same thing I was? To me, that sounds like widespead deception. I am not saying EVERYONE does it. But I do not think I was in the minority.
Now, the question was asked how I can still get product if I am no longer selling. I was able to get onto InTouch until about a week or so ago. It has been over a year since I have placed an order. I called corporate a while back about a product replacement. A customer - not one of mine - ordered the brush set and a couple of weeks later she found out it changed. Days after she got hers. She wanted to know if she could replace it. She felt she should have been told it was changing. Who wants something that has been discontinued? Especially for the same price. Corporate told me to do a product replacement. Her consultant had quit and didn't want anything to do with the problem. So I did a product replacement. It was easy. Then I noticed all the moisturizers I had. I called corporate, explained that I had 6 moisterizers for oily and 6 for normal. Neither worked for my skin. Could I do a product replacement. I was told yes. So that is what I was doing up to when I got booted from InTouch. I also was exchanging product that other people had ordered and didn't like and they no longer had a consultant.
I do not feel corporate lied to me or deceived me. I do think they should have more to do with the directors, though. Do some research on some of these fast up and comers. Question it if the director is doing most of the ordering of the unit. Find out why if a director is making some co pays on the car. I have called and given complaints and I do not know if anything was done. My director is still a director. I emailed her when I could no longer get on to InTouch. She told me I could be reactivated for less than $26. I still have people who like to buy and exchange when it doesn't work for them so I will probably reactivate. I will not buy anything, though. At first I did think it was unethical, but I DID call and ask. Mary Kay's product exchange is for consultants as well as their customers.
Now, this post was long enough but I hope some of you will realize that I did work this business, most of it alone. I did everything that I was shown to do. I got info on the website, I listened to CDs, I spoke to directors and national at our meetings. I do not hate MK. I don't even hate my director. I do wish I would have been told the WHOLE truth. Given ALL the information when I asked. I just would hate it for someone else to go thru what I did. I had a husband to support me. I was not dependant on this job. But what about someone who is?
Please don't tell me how I could have done it better. Please don't tell me what I could have done differently. I appreciate all the helpful hints, but I am through with MK. I have another job now, with more flexibility and more pay. I am with my kids every day. I work during naps or after they are in bed while hubby watches TV. I am home on the weekends and evenings. I truly work less than 15-20 hours a week and I make $200 a week after taxes. And I get gas paid for. And internet and phone. I have no reason to do anything else.
And I want to commend those directors who ARE doing it right. We consultants look up to you. We emulate what you do so we can be where you are. We listen to what you say because in our eyes you know what you are doing. You had to do something right to make it as far as you have. And we do not believe you will lie to us or deceive us. You are big sisters to us. You are who we want to become.
Don't worry AT ALL about how long your comments are!!! They are great!
We are right there with you in regards to warning people about the things that happened to you.
Believe me, I have no desire for anyone to experience what you have described. And yet, I know that it happens all the time. I started this site to be a balanced view of what Mary Kay is supposed to be. And what it sometimes is presented as.
The more widespread this sort of problem (that you are describing) the more important a site like this is. I hope many people find this site and carefully compare what they are being told to what Mary Kay is supposed to look like.
I was just told a story today that will break everyones heart to hear...but it will take me a while to compose it properly.
We are not offering suggestions in the hope that you will start selling again (although we would welcome you if you ever wanted to!) or to point out "why you failed", we are simply trying to get to a "conclusion" that someone reading will be able to follow if they are navigating a situation similar to yours.
I am currently working on creating a system/document/site... something... that anyone can access and compare what they are being told by their recruiter/director with the "right way" of selling Mary Kay.
There are no simple, cut and dried answers and it will take a long time I am sure to make it 1. useful to all and 2. broadly known.
If I can create something that meets the first parameter, the second one will most likely follow!
Again, thank you for your input, please know that none of us are trying to insult your intelligence or your work ethic!
All of your contributions to this site are valuable and the more detail you offer, the more likely people considering Mary Kay will be helped by all of us.
If we can keep one person from getting snared by an unscrupulous director, it will be worth it!
I am sure we will do more than that, but for now (and always) I want to keep our focus on the individuals whose lives we may impact!
Judi, I just want to let you know that your experience matches mine, even though I live on the other side of the planet. I don't feel cheated by corporate either, but my SD (one of those who became SD 10 months after signing up) will say anything to make people interested in joining/happy about already being in MK.
I have heard the exaggerated averages, the understated time calculations, serious questions answered with catchy little slogans. I have consultants of my own that were pitched by her and have confessed afterwards how cheated they feel now.
I just want to let you and everyone else here know that it's not unique, not at all. And as several of you have pointed out, it's all about the greed of individuals, not about the calculated evils of Mary Kay Ash. Going through DIQ does NOT mean that a person is qualified to deal with and lead other women in their business or private life.
Judi, I have always hoped that there are better leaders out there, doing it in a slower, better way. PT always ridicules that idea, and I've left that place feeling empty and sad. This blog, however, combined with a chance I got recently to talk to some other Swedish directors, make me feel that hope again.
I have just decided that even though it's the hard way, I will confront my SD in a nice, concerned way about the way she's behaving. I could let it all go of course, but I don't want others to suffer, including herself. I've decided to do it by email, so that she has ample time to ponder and respond. I will translate my email to English if anyone here wants to read it when I'm done.
*hugs to my fellow mistreated and to the people who have open hearts and ears for us*
I have the Mary Kay Words of Wisdom calender and for everyday it has a quote from MKA...
For today December 16...This is what MKA said. "Sales" "If you're in sales, putting yourself in the other person's shoes should be an automatic reaction. But instead of focusing on how closing the sale will benefit the customer, too many salespeople are focusing on the commission they'll get. Think in terms of what's good for the other person, and success will seek you out."
I truly believe with all my heart that MKA would have never wanted SDs to act this way. To frontload anyone. To mislead anyone. MKA started this company to help women that wanted to work on their own. I don't think her intentions were to have people in her company or IBC or SD or NSD that would mislead anyone.
I am sorry that your director did you this way and I am sorry that your NSD did too. I want my business to be on the up and up. I don't want to mislead anyone. And when I have recruited I have told those women that it takes hard work and you are not going to start going this and be a millionaire tomorrow. You have to put the time in it to make it work. Will all you classes hold NO they won't.
I do believe that this product is the best and I do feel that if you can get someone to try it they will like it. I know how hard it is to get classes. It is. However I just keep going because I know that one day it will break open.
I am not in anyway saying that you didn't work hard please don't think that I am.
I have one of those stickers on the back of my car and I have gotten alot of ladies that call me, however my car is in town most of the time and a lot of people see it. I know this business can work and I want to work it the right way. I don't front load anyone.
Judi, Obviously you took offense to my post and I am sorry for offending you. But it was not meant to do that but to only get an understanding. If you recall in my post I asked "What do you mean by.."
Of course I am not implying that you believed that you should have been compensated for getting dressed etc.. Apparently I did not do a very good job, but what I was trying to do was state that in any job or working situation there will be times when you will not be immediatly compensated for any extra time that you put in. You may or may not see the fruit of your labor until later. That is what I refer to as "sweat equity". In home business or self employment situations there are plenty of opportunities for this. And in 8-5 jobs you may work 45-50 hours a week, but you will only be paid for 40 (unless you are an hourly employee who can get overtime.) It happens all the time and is not necessarily deceptive.
Your complaint hinges on the deceptive practices that some SD's have. I dont doubt that there were some willful deceptive practices going on in your unit (especially the way you describe your director), but I was only considering the possibility that there are some things we learn along the way when doing a business and just because we did not know it before it may or may not mean that it was diliberatly (sp?) kept from us. That is why I have a problem with some of your implications that directors are deceptive.
There is purposful willful deception and then there are just some things that a director either did not get around to telling us about or just did not prepare us for. Not out of deception but out of poor leadership. That is why I stated the comment about your beliefs. It sounds like to me that you "may" believe that everything you had to find out on your own adds up to deception or being lied to. It may not be deception but it does speak to the ineffectivness of your director. And we all agree that you had a bad one, whether she was being deceptive on purpose or not.
If you recall in my comment I specifically mentioned things like, talking on the phone and other things that are time comsuming. It sounds as if these are the activities that you say were not factored in when talking about how much time you really have to spend in this business. Referring to the time spent in front of customers as the actual work time is not necessarily deceptive in my point of view. It may be just understood that the rest are things that you just have to sacrafice and do so that you can see results later. Once again, its about what you believe and whether or not you think it is worth it to to put that much time in.
What might be a waste of time to you may be productive time to someone else.
Noone is calling you a moron, or saying that you are ugly. I still cant figure out why you needed to say that you were not ugly, what does that have to do with anything?
I brought up the activities like driving back and forth to work and having to do other things for a job or a business to give examples of things that one is not immediatley compensated for, but you may see return on it later. But you can claim mileage and other expenses (portions of you utilities and home if I am not mistaken) that you incur because of this business on your taxes. Once again it is not immediate and may sound like a waste of time, but you spend the time now and reap the reward later.In Mk it may be 2 weeks or 2 months later or a year later. I just got a team member a few months ago that I had talked to about joining years ago. It happens that way sometimes.
It just sounds like that for you it was not worth the time you have to put in or waiting that long for results. MK did not work out for you as far as the way you choose to spend your time for the results you were getting. It was not a good fit for your life. I would never try to convince someone to do MK if whatever they are already doing is meeting their needs. You mentioned your current endeavor and how it seems to be meeting your needs. That is the whole point..find something that meets your needs. I am not trying to convice you to get back in this business.
Thanks for clearing up how you are still able to get product if you are not an active consultant. Once again, sorry if I made you feel insulted. Its just that I was prepared for the ups and downs of this business. I was told about phone time, dealing with customers and all the other things that come with it. I was even told that there will be days that I would wish I hadnt signed up. Because it is hard, but it is a business and these things are expected. I dont feel lied to or cheated or decieved and I really love it. If I dont do the work, or put the time in then that is when I dont see results. But I can honestly say that when ever I put in the sweat equity, I get the results
The reason I said I was not ugly was because on another site when I gave my experience someone had the audacity (sp?) to imply that maybe my appearance had something to do with it. There was always an excuse as to why it was MY fault that I didn't succeed. And I took no offense.
I think another example foreverpink, would be thru most of my career I have done oodles and oodles of facials and classes. The last few months, we have had some very big events happen on the personal side of life that required ALOT of my time. I did manage an open house the last day of November and the 1st day of December, but have had reoders coming in daily. Month to date my sales are over $1500 (it is only the 16th)- unit production is approaching $7K and we finished up requalifiying for our Saturn.
I am embarrassed to admit but... no classes, no facials (except the ones at the open house), had to cancel both of my unit meetings this month because of the weather and road conditions. Time actually worked is embarrassing to say and yet, I will be paid hansomely for my sales and my production.
So that work and time invested all along have paid me for not working now.
I usually can't say this but I know I have worked less than 15 -20 a week this month and I will not complain with what I am bringing in. As a matter of fact, as I am writing this I am feeling guilty that I haven't done more and I realize how much I miss doing the classes and facials.
Can't wait for our "come for fun meeting" tomorrow night. It will be se good to see my unit members and find out what is up and how they are doing.
So the hours of work I have put in up to now in return have come back to pay me when I have barely been able to work at all this month.
judi, I truly hope you don't feel that I was saying you didn't work hard enough or you didn't do it right, sometimes it just doesn't work, that all there is to it. I found I had little or no luck with fish bowls however we get awesome leads with solid bookings when we do bridal fairs or home party expos. Some of it comes from being able to chat with the people at the table when they sign up. (and they know what they are signing up for). (I had to find a way to meet people and these type of events work for me and my unit, because I hate warm chatting).
As far as directors and initial inventories, I sit with every new unit member and first have her give me a list of all the products she knows she wants to order and then we select the rest together. If I know something is being discontinued, we don't order - that is the way I have operated for the 12 years I have been a director. I will never do a "template" order because all too often a consultant ends up with product she will never sell.
Lastly, if you ever do decide you want to rejoin for the second chance opportunity which is $20 plus tax & s/h to get your product at cost and service a few friends, you are only required to put in a minimum $200 once year (actually it is before the end of the 12 month). And you may join in any unit, under any director you choose, you do not have to rejoin the unit you were in, even if you are using the second chance opportunity. (Just file that knowledge away in case you ever wish you could save some $$).
I hope reading stories form STRT, Pmyst, and myself has restored some faith in directors. Some of us truly take what we do seriously, when I took my position as a director, I took an oath and be golly, if I take an oath, I intend on sticking to my commitment. I hope you can continue to expose the wrong doings and have all directors operate on the up and up.
Glad you found something that works with your family and your schedule that you enjoy, that is what is important.
mkkm, I am sorry I didn't answer your question in your comment, I missed your post. In my time as a director, I have had 4 car drivers. 2 of the girls became directors. Currently I have no car drivers in my personal unit because one got married, moved, got pregnant had a son and then got pregnant again and had twins and it was just too much for her to keep up with the kiddies and production (she remains a consultant and plans some day on becoming a director but that will be quite awhile down the road.
The other had become a director but her husband lost his job and they had no medical insurance. So she took a job so they had medical coverage - between working fulltime and taking care of her kids and then her husband who was in the reserves was activated and deployed, she choose not to requalify for her car and to step down from directorship for now. She continues to be a team leader and plans also on returning to directorship when all settles down in her life. She hasn't yet because it looks like her husband will be deployed again. One of my unit members has requalified for the car while a director.
I wanted to add--and maybe someone already said this--in regard to compensation and time; sometimes the compensation is delayed. I have had a few ZERO SALES appointments that were deflating at the time, BUT those ladies wound up ordering later. So, the time I put into their appointment(s) was not time wasted, but time invested for future income. ;)
David, maybe we could have a separate posts for these, as they are so numerous. Here are a few to start with:
1) Anti-MKers claim that the market is saturated. They also claim that there really are no end customers. HUH? How can both be true when you sell a consumable product and most adults use some form of something that we sell.
2) Prizes from directors. Anti-MKers claim that the prizes are cheap. But, they also claim that they spent a lot on prizes and other expenses when they were directors. Hmmm. If directors only give out cheap trinkets for prizes, how does that get so expensive? Especially if no one in their units is doing anything as anti-MKers claim.
3) Anti-MKers include all sorts of expenses in the math about how much we earn, including taxes, housekeepers, baby sitters, training, clothing, etc. However, they make no deductions for these types of expenses when they state the amount made by those in other businesses. That's apples and oranges, not apples to apples.
Even with those coming in with larger inventories, I do not use a template order. I vary their products based on their age (at first they will sell to mostly friends and family and their friends will be their age), their geographic location (warmer climates do not sell as much foundation or moisture creams, but more bronzer), and how they intend to work their business (appointments, out of the book, cash and carry, as some things are not big sellers when you are not holding appts. and demonstrating them).
Everyone does not need the exact same inventory on their shelf, and I even adjust mine with the seasons. For example, I do not sell a lot of hand cream in the Summer, but at Christmastime, I do.
4) LISTENING TO YOUR DIRECTOR. Many of those who have left MK claim to have listened to their director about inventory, etc. I wonder if they also listened to their director about holding appointments and selling products. Yes, I recommend inventory if you can afford it, want it, and plan to sell it, but I also recommend that you get yourself some appointments booked right away and sell the stuff. It's not fair to blame your director if you took her advice about one and not the other. She gave the advice based on you doing both.
Posts
OY! I just love having a place to respond to each and every thing posted "over there" in PT land.
ReplyDeleteI wish that everyone would stop talking about "executive income". How many housewives, moms, and other ladies are really expecting executive income from any job?
I like to talk about "career income". The income that I earn in Mary Kay is more than I have earned anywhere else during my working years and it beats what I could earn elsewhere now. The money supports my family and pays bills.
The overwhelming majority of women who begin a MK business do not do so to earn Executive income, or even career income. Most are looking for a little extra cash on the side, and that is not hard to do in this business, especially since consultants working at part time and hobby levels have very few expenses. They rarely attend the bigger/more costly events like Seminar, they do not do a lot of driving around, they do not have a lot of customers to present with Gifts w/Purchase, etc. I even started my biz just to earn extra income. When my business took off immediately, it became clear what I needed to do.
I have a selling unit. We just earned another car with hardly any new consultant production (we have had no new stars the past 2 quarters, and maybe one qualified). We have not focused on recruiting and our base unit finished the car early. There is proof that a selling base unit will support and car and unit production. I am personally on target for the Court of Sales, and we will be on target for a unit club by Dec. 31st.
Sorry this is a bit off topic. I just want to wish all here a very happy and joyful Christmas Holiday.
ReplyDeleteStay well.
Blessed
Sorry, posted this on the wrong link from days ago . . . just want to introduce myself!
ReplyDeleteFirst time here!
I've been with Mary Kay since July 1 and I can truely say I am enjoying myself. It's giving me the extra money I need. I don't need to get rich . . . just pay a few more bills.
I have been reading all the blogs about MK, plus PT, and must say that the site bores me now. Once can only last so long without an encouraging word or balanced perspective. It's nice to hear a man's perspective. Way to go!
As for the donation debate. I have participated in Angel Tree for the past 15 years and RARELY have I found an angel on the tree for older children . . . say 12 and up. They seem a bit forgotten in toy drives, don't you think?
So, more power to you Mary Kay.
Happy Holidays all!
Speaking the real truth, the reason I keep talking about the exeutive income is because I was told that it could be done working 15-20 hours a week. No, I did not start MK to make that income, but I did expect to make more than a hobby income. I did expect to make enough to pay for insurance and other perks that I had from my other job. And I expected it because I was told that by more than 1 director, including my own, and a national.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking the real truth, the reason I keep talking about the exeutive income is because I was told that it could be done working 15-20 hours a week. No, I did not start MK to make that income, but I did expect to make more than a hobby income. I did expect to make enough to pay for insurance and other perks that I had from my other job. And I expected it because I was told that by more than 1 director, including my own, and a national.
ReplyDeleteWe (wife and I) were told this too. No talk of saturation. We were told by many directors and nationals (at oh so many events) that there was no barrier to “executive income” if only you have the interest and willingness to work.
ReplyDeleteBlessed and Judi,
ReplyDeleteThere is no barrier to executive income other than hard work, God's blessings, and timing. We do not always get what we want when we want it, but if you want a great income in Mary Kay, it is possible. I truly have never had someone in my unit who has done things the right way, over time, who hasn't made money in Mary Kay. For every case where I have seen someone fail to make it in MK, I have been able to find the reasons why when I examined the situation, the facts, and their story.
Now, I don't think that Exec. Income is possible in 10-15 hours per week unless you are talking about a NSD who built big long ago and who is now coasting into retirement. I am sorry if someone mis-spoke or flat out mislead you both.
While I know that you think that whatever your experience was, that it is the norm, I disagree.
I was never promised any amount of income, nor do I promise any to anyone else. I can show them what is possible, what I earn, etc., but I do not promise anything. I tell them that it depends on them and how hard they work, more specifically the number of appointments that they hold and the number of clients that they build.
Let me be clear, this business is not always easy, I have worked hard. But I can honestly say that I've worked a lot harder for a lot less money and freedom.
This week alone, I had 4 appts. that all had to postpone due to illness, death, etc., but I've still sold over $500. All while preparing for a family visit this weekend (deep house cleaning), church work, Christmas shopping, Bible study group, grocery shopping, banking, post office trips to mail product, lunch with a friend and her child, decorating, gift wrapping, and watching my child. I normally sell between $500-1000 per week.
I am happy with my career. No where else could I get this deal.
Blessed, I have to address your comment about saturation. I do not believe that the MK market is saturated and I base that own my experience, and of those women that I know and work with. I pick up new clients routinely through the website, 800 number and referrals. When I joined MK I lived in a very small town and my director, her sister and her mother lived there as well. I think at one time there were 8 consultants in her church alone, and several attended mine, but I still had a great customer base and reorder business, and regularly held appointments. After moving to a new town years ago, I built another thriving customer base. I have consultants all over the county and they all seem to be able to build at least some clients.
And as for the comment about most consultant's rarely attending the bigger events, my director told me it was a must. Show up to go up!! Even though I was not making nearly enough to pay for it out of my MK money.
ReplyDeleteAnd you have to buy the gift with purchase BEFORE your customer orders so you can give it to them. Remember, you can't sell from an empty cart! Gotta have it in stock. And the company promotes the gift with purchase. So you kinda have to give it or you will look very unprofessional.
Speaking the real truth, how long have you been a director? I have never heard such things from any other director and I have spoken to quite a few. They all push the extra events. My SIL is a consultant. She lives in the northeast. It was pushed where she lives. My aunt lives in the deep south. It was pushed where she lives. I live no where near either of them and it was pushed where I live, too. I've never heard a director not encourage her consultant's to go.
I probably should have said "lack of God's blessings" in that earlier post...
ReplyDeleteWhat I mean by that is that if someone really did everything right, OVER TIME, and they could not get anything going, maybe MK is not where God wanted them. I've not had personal experience with someone in that situation, as I've said, I've seen other reasons why their business did not make it.
Judi, I've been a director for almost a decade, and never been in jeopardy of losing my unit, just to let you know that I am a solid director.
ReplyDeleteI agree that training and events are important TO A DEGREE. I think that in this day and time, we get a lot of training via email and internet that in years past, we had to show up somewhere to get. I also believe that motivation and excitement are powerful and that at least occasionally you need to get your battery charged by attending a live event.
I am very careful in what I promote to my unit, because I know that if I promote it, they trust me and think that they should attend. Because of that I carefully consider anything that I share with them regarding upcoming events.
As far as PCP, I do think everyone should participate, what I meant was that a consultant with only a few clients would have little expense in that program, since we pay per client and per pack of 5 gifts. Whereas I enroll well over 100 clients each quarter and give away lots of the premiums.
My NSD knows how I feel about events. I expect them to be VALUABLE to me and my unit, or I do not attend.
Hey all, just wanted to share some good news. We just finished up requalifying for the Saturn. Yup, December 14 and we are done. And we have had No production from new unit members in the last two months. Just like speaking the real truth, I have a selling unit. I am on target personally for Court of Sales and we are close to being on target for unit club. Not one penny was put in to just get it done.
ReplyDeletejudi, just like speaking the truth, I do not encourage all unit members to attend Seminar. If you have a someone that really wants to do this as a career and make big money, I do believe it does show the potential of what you can achieve. However, if I have a parttimer that is really looking just for lunch money and extra for her family, I think it is too large of an expense. So you have two directors of the people posting here that share the same feelings.
speaking the truth, I couldn't agree with what you say any more than I do. Half the time when reading your posts, I have to look to see who wrote it because it sounds like I could have easily written it.
I make great money and don't work my butt off and I absolutely love what I do. As for saturation, I don't find it to be a problem in our area either.
P.S. I was out Christmas shopping and when I came home the production was in. Now is that not exciting??
ReplyDelete(What no "dialing for dollars" on the last day of the month, what no hampster wheel)?? - Imagine that, if you have a unit that is selling the product, they need product.
My unit is the BEST!!
The open house totals being reported have been awesome, the grand days have been awesome. They are selling this product and all of them have clients that just can't wait to buy the mineral foundations.
Gotta love it, noone can make money in MK, right?? So why is it when one of the poster said this in part of her post, did noone jump on her and say she must have been lying?
ReplyDeleteOn PT:
Yes, I was making between $3000-$5000 per month for the past year. So I shocked everyone, even my so called "good friend" NSD...Blah, Blah,
(Oh, I just thought of the answer, she was doing it dishonestly, so instead of cleaning up her act and doing it right, she quit)
Regarding Mary Kay and executive income: Since each of us is self employed, there is NO barrier to executive income except for time and work.
ReplyDeleteLets define executive income, for purposes of argument, as anything over $10,000 per MONTH. I personally do not see anyone in Mary Kay less than a year making this kind of income per month. Also, when they refer to the 10 to 15 hrs per week, that means SELLING HOURS-- the time directly in front of customers. Fifteen hours a week would be FIVE classes of three hours each. If the average class is three hundred in sales, then times five that would be fifteen hundred a week in sales times four weeks in a month is sales of six thousand a month, or profit of three thousand per month from sales alone. That is executive income to many women, just not the 10k per month we mentioned earlier. However, obviously many directors' checks show that level, especially after they have been in a while.
The beautiful thing about Mary Kay is that, once you have built your business to that level, the company is NOT going to come in and promote someone that you have trained to be your boss and phase you out after all your hard work.
Mary Kay is simple and it takes integrity, hard work and belief.
Once you have been trained by Mary Kay you will be in demand in the marketplace, even if you don't realize it. Our training is the BEST on the planet.
We also need to be careful not to define other's success by our own definition: If all she wants is to make 100.00 per month, then that IS success to her. And if you want, like I do, to make 10,000 per month, then we are going to have to work at it a little longer to build to that level. We may have to learn additional skills such as recruiting and training others and motivational techniques and, dare I say it, better selling skills... BUT IT CAN BE DONE-- OTHERS HAVE DONE IT AND SO CAN YOU!!!
mk4me,
ReplyDeleteCongratulations!!!!!
MKKM,
Hello again, I commented on your other comment, and already featured you on the main page. Click Here
STRT,
OY back! good points
Blessed,
a very happy and joyful Christmas Holiday to you as well
love4mk,
welcome and thank you.
Judi,
Hi! I hope that you are beginning to see that there are people that ARE doing it the way that it is supposed to be done. We all feel the pain of your experience and hope that you can find healing here!
Your gentle participation here is always so welcome!
Thanks all
Wow this is great a great area its nice to see some positive directors around here. I think the Myst has channeled you all!!
ReplyDeleteThis gives us consultants hope to be honest directors.
MK4me, I want to congratulate you on achieving the Saturn production on the 14th of the month. That is the way the company designed for it to be done. Out of curiosity, how many other women have you helped earn the use of a career car? Way to go and Merry Christmas!
ReplyDeleteMk4me I forgot to congratulate you on winning the car again and kudos to your unit. I know I shouldnt be saying this but it seems like I see more happy GP drivers than I do Caddie...I guess its less pressure..no offense to any caddie driver reading here.
ReplyDeleteMK4ME,
ReplyDeletecongrats on the Saturn, I guess we will picking our cars up at the same time!
WOO-HOO!
David, I never doubted that there was someone doing it right. I am sure there are a few. But I do not think there are any making executive income (6 figures is what I was told) working 15-20 hours per week. I like how someone said that's 15-20 hours in front of someone. What about the hours getting up to a facial? Is that just hidden? Why the deception? Is that like saying some are making 6 figures before charge backs, expenses, etc? Maybe that's what my director meant when she said it was possible to make 6 figues in only 15-20 hours. Of course when you deduct all the many expenses and add up actual hours worked things look a lot different. I thought that since we were supposed to be putting God first then those in charge would not have been so very deceptive with their description of this business.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry if I sound bitter. I just wish someone would have stated the whole truth.
judi, please understand that is what I think most of us here are saying, we are sorry you ended up in an area such as you did but many of us do speak the truth, my speach is, "if you think you are going to become a consultant and make a ton of money right away, think again because then this isn't going to be for you." It takes time and you if you want to have a successful business you are going to have to build it one client at a time.
ReplyDeleteI say this right in the interview. Because I never want someone to come back and say to me you said I could make x in x and no two people are going to have the same results.
David forgive me if I sound harsh this time, do to my comment what you wish to, its your blog..
ReplyDeleteBut Judi sometimes I think that your disappoitment has more to do with your own unrealistic expectations than it does with you having been lied to. Its as if you had the wrong idea of what you were supposed to experience with this business. Some of that was the fault of your directors and other leaders, but i think, by reading some of your comments, some of it was your own belief system.
You say:
" David, I never doubted that there was someone doing it right. I am sure there are a few. But I do not think there are any making executive income (6 figures is what I was told) working 15-20 hours per week. I like how someone said that's 15-20 hours in front of someone. What about the hours getting up to a facial? Is that just hidden? Why the deception?"
What do you mean by "the hours getting up to a facial"? Are you talking about the time spent going to or preparing for a facial or class? And if so, then that may be part of your disappointment right there because you may have the wrong idea of what kinds of things you will be compensated for.
The time you spend gettting ready to work is just that..time. Its not supposed to be included in your pay, especially not when you are just starting a business. The preparation is NOT the compensated work. Yes it is work none the less, but it is not the time that is to be included in calculating your pay. This is not deception to not include this information, it is just understood that it is part of the sweat equity you will be putting in. Of course it takes time to prepare for the actual work (time in front of customers), but I dont see how you should be upset about that, it is just part of it.
Even on a regular nine to five, you dont expect to get compensated for the time spent driving to work or getting ready to go to work, or for having to find a sitter. The pay does not start until you start doing your job. So why shouldnt my hours start in MK when I am acutally with a customer? In my opinion the 15-20 hours in front of customers, ARE the acutally hours worked.
I know there is time that I must spend on the phone, or talking to potential customers to make sure the class or facial happens, but that is just part of it and if you are upset about that, then that is a horse of a different color altogether.
I remember you saying once that you are a stay at home mom. I dont know when was the last time you worked outside of the home, but I am sure that you did not go to your boss and ask to be compensated for your commute to and from work and for all the things you have to do to be able to get to work. You would have been laughed at. So why do you expect it to happen in Mary Kay?
There are some things that you have to be willing to do. The difference between some that are successful (in any area) and those that arent is that the successful ones are willing to do what the others wont. They will put in the extra, unbillable hours, and do things that they probably wont see a return on right away. I dont believe that this was "hidden" from you with a deceptive agenda, but maybe someone assumed that you understood it.
But even in their assumptions they still failed you
And I am so tired of all the executive income, real income minuse expenses argument. A salary is a salary. It is the money that was generated by your activity plain and simple. Salary does not refer to the amount you have left over after taxes, expenses etc. Even on a regular job, your salary per year is what is given to you based on the hours each day that you plan to work. If you apply for a loan or credit, they will ask you to list your salary per year BEFORE taxes and deductions. If you make $60 grand a year then that is what you will report not what you actually take home. The salary is what is given to you by your company or employer. What you do with it after that is your own business (the amount of taxes you take out, insurance, household expenses etc. ) But the salary is the bottom line that they have agreed to pay you.
Noone has a problem with this expect with Mary Kay, but its really the same logic.
And just for the record Judi, there are more than "a few" of us doing this business right.
I also asked you this on a previous thread, you may have answered already and maybe I just have not seen it.
But you say that the only reason you stay in MK is because you like the products and you get them at cost, because you would never pay full price for them. Then in other places on this blog you have said that you are NOT a consultant and that you have moved on from MK. I also remember you saying that you are not active or actively ordering. So how can you still get your products at cost if you are not an active consultant?
Judi, Sometimes you seem to contradict yourself.
Foreverpink,
ReplyDeleteI think that you are genuinely curious, and since I am as well I will allow it to stand.
Judi,
Please read FP's comment and mine here thoroughly before responding.
We are not criticizing you.
We DO think that it is possible that you were led to believe that you would make 6 figures with only 15-20 hours of effort.
What we are trying to figure out, is whether you were INTENTIONALLY misled or if you misunderstood and thus were UNintentionally misled.
I am also still curious about how you spent the time you spent.
When you say you spent 3 hours on the phone everyday, how many phone calls was that? Although I can't understand it, I know that my wife can talk to ONE person for three hours. (not for MK, just in general)
So, going back to the 'working your butt off' equation, how many people did you get yourself in front of in those 15-20 hours?
Finally, no matter how deceptive some individuals were, it is not fair for you to say...
"I thought that since we were supposed to be putting God first then those in charge would not have been so very deceptive with their description of this business."
We ALL know that people who wish to defraud others will use ANYTHING they can to do so. I have had homeless people that ask for money, and when they find out I am a Christian, they change their "pitch" to, "hey brother, doesn't God say you should help me".
No matter what you do in life, you have to weigh what people are telling you against what you know to be true about God. Just because someone tells you they are a Christian does not mean they are, or that they have decided to put God first in their dealings.
The fact that someone claiming to love God does bad things does not mean that people that love God are doing the same thing.
Please understand that we are not trying to "gang up on you" or "make fun of you", we are just a little confused about what your experience was. Thanks in advance for clearing it up.
Some of my unit members are far enough away from me that they attend another meeting but we are close enough to get together occassionally. One night we did a phone call night in my home, we all had cell phones and they made the calls and I listened so I could help. One of my girls, who had been frustrated with her bookings not holding was calling one of her leads. I was listening, she was great, but she had to keep selling her, over and over, I finally looked at her and signaled, cut it.. When she got off the phone, I told her first her presentation was great (it was) but told her she was working "too hard" she had to keep overcoming objection after objection. She probably would have gotten her booked if I had let her keep going. My point for telling this is: I explained to her, yes you may have to overcome some objections but when you have to put that much effort and work into getting it book, chances are it will not hold.
ReplyDeleteYes, you must use some objection overcomers, however, it reaches a point if it is just a challenged to get her to book, you will probably win the challenge but end up "porched". If someone isn't interested, I am not going to stress myself out.
My unit member was very happy to hear what I had to say because some how in her mind she had made it "a failure" if she couldn't get the caller to book. The objective truly was to get the caller to book and hold.
It has been a few months since our fun phone call night and I can tell everyone her booking to holding ratio has gone way up.
So long and short of it, one can "work their butts off and spend alot of time" but it doesn't mean it is productive time.
Judi, I hope this helps a little understand about time spent too!
Ok, first, I am not a moron. I do not expect DRIVING time to be included in the hours worked, or the time it takes to shower and dress. I am talking about warm chattering, phone calls, everything you have to do to get that first booking. Everything you have to do to get that second booking. Not driving, not loading the car, not getting dressed. Please don't insult me with that explaination. When I say I spent 3 hours on the phone in this business, I mean 3 hours on the phone. I put out fish bowls and every day would call each and every number. I had a script that I followed, not word for word, but a base script. I called beautitians, anyone in the beauty world. I gave discounts and free product to any who would provide names and phone numbers, referals. I warm chattered.
ReplyDeleteLet me also say that I DID NOT expect to make a six figure income. I was not naive enough to believe that it was possible in so little time. I expected to take home, after taxes, after expenses (samples, section 2, baskets, decorations, normal business expeses; after all, it's not how much you make but how much you get to keep) at least $300. I NEVER did this for more than 3 weeks in a row.
I do believe I was intentially misled. I am not an idiot. I am not ugly. I worked hard. I may not have a college education, but I am no dummy by any means. I hate it when I hear that it didn't work because of something I did either wrong or just flat out didn't do.
My director placed my first order. In that order were quite a few items that she ordered in bulk that had packaging changes mere weeks after I received them. They no longer looked like what was advertised in the Look Book. She knew they were changing. Why order so much?
She also told me that the AVERAGE class (3-5 people) bought $600 worth of product. Holding 3 average classes should have done what I needed it to do. But you do not make a 50% profit if you do it like I was encouraged by my director to do. Order samples, books, CDs, make baskets, go to meetings, conferences, all the extra classes to learn the business.
I feel I was thouroughly deceived. I spoke to a few directors, a national, others in my unit. I asked a bunch of questions. I questioned what exactly was meant by AVERAGE attendance. How often did the SCC hold, how often did the hostess invite guests who actually showed up. How much did people REALLY spend at a class. Everybody only gave me the positive. No one said how rare a SCC actually held, much less had guests. Then I started getting the news letter and saw how little people were selling. Our big seller was selling $150 a week. That's not a job. Who can live off of the profit of $150 retail?
I was told I wasn't motivated enough. I was told to listen to more CDs. I was told I needed to work harder. I was told to hire a babysitter so I could work more. I was told to hire an assistant so I could get more done. And I was, of course, told to keep ordering. To not let a single quarter go by without ordering something. I did not do that. I ordered when I got $400 retail. Usually when friends ganged up and bought together. Thank goodness I at least know how to handle money. I can understand how some will continue to order if their director is encouraging it. This person is like a mentor. You want to believe them since they are above you on the ladder of success. They must know what they are talking about, right? I feel used.
And the reason I keep speaking out is because of what happened to me happened to two others that I know who live states away from me. What are the changes that they were told almost word for word the exact same thing I was? To me, that sounds like widespead deception. I am not saying EVERYONE does it. But I do not think I was in the minority.
Now, the question was asked how I can still get product if I am no longer selling. I was able to get onto InTouch until about a week or so ago. It has been over a year since I have placed an order. I called corporate a while back about a product replacement. A customer - not one of mine - ordered the brush set and a couple of weeks later she found out it changed. Days after she got hers. She wanted to know if she could replace it. She felt she should have been told it was changing. Who wants something that has been discontinued? Especially for the same price. Corporate told me to do a product replacement. Her consultant had quit and didn't want anything to do with the problem. So I did a product replacement. It was easy. Then I noticed all the moisturizers I had. I called corporate, explained that I had 6 moisterizers for oily and 6 for normal. Neither worked for my skin. Could I do a product replacement. I was told yes. So that is what I was doing up to when I got booted from InTouch. I also was exchanging product that other people had ordered and didn't like and they no longer had a consultant.
I do not feel corporate lied to me or deceived me. I do think they should have more to do with the directors, though. Do some research on some of these fast up and comers. Question it if the director is doing most of the ordering of the unit. Find out why if a director is making some co pays on the car. I have called and given complaints and I do not know if anything was done. My director is still a director. I emailed her when I could no longer get on to InTouch. She told me I could be reactivated for less than $26. I still have people who like to buy and exchange when it doesn't work for them so I will probably reactivate. I will not buy anything, though. At first I did think it was unethical, but I DID call and ask. Mary Kay's product exchange is for consultants as well as their customers.
Now, this post was long enough but I hope some of you will realize that I did work this business, most of it alone. I did everything that I was shown to do. I got info on the website, I listened to CDs, I spoke to directors and national at our meetings. I do not hate MK. I don't even hate my director. I do wish I would have been told the WHOLE truth. Given ALL the information when I asked. I just would hate it for someone else to go thru what I did. I had a husband to support me. I was not dependant on this job. But what about someone who is?
Please don't tell me how I could have done it better. Please don't tell me what I could have done differently. I appreciate all the helpful hints, but I am through with MK. I have another job now, with more flexibility and more pay. I am with my kids every day. I work during naps or after they are in bed while hubby watches TV. I am home on the weekends and evenings. I truly work less than 15-20 hours a week and I make $200 a week after taxes. And I get gas paid for. And internet and phone. I have no reason to do anything else.
And I want to commend those directors who ARE doing it right. We consultants look up to you. We emulate what you do so we can be where you are. We listen to what you say because in our eyes you know what you are doing. You had to do something right to make it as far as you have. And we do not believe you will lie to us or deceive us. You are big sisters to us. You are who we want to become.
Judi,
ReplyDeleteDon't worry AT ALL about how long your comments are!!! They are great!
We are right there with you in regards to warning people about the things that happened to you.
Believe me, I have no desire for anyone to experience what you have described. And yet, I know that it happens all the time. I started this site to be a balanced view of what Mary Kay is supposed to be. And what it sometimes is presented as.
The more widespread this sort of problem (that you are describing) the more important a site like this is. I hope many people find this site and carefully compare what they are being told to what Mary Kay is supposed to look like.
I was just told a story today that will break everyones heart to hear...but it will take me a while to compose it properly.
We are not offering suggestions in the hope that you will start selling again (although we would welcome you if you ever wanted to!) or to point out "why you failed", we are simply trying to get to a "conclusion" that someone reading will be able to follow if they are navigating a situation similar to yours.
I am currently working on creating a system/document/site... something... that anyone can access and compare what they are being told by their recruiter/director with the "right way" of selling Mary Kay.
There are no simple, cut and dried answers and it will take a long time I am sure to make it 1. useful to all and 2. broadly known.
If I can create something that meets the first parameter, the second one will most likely follow!
Again, thank you for your input, please know that none of us are trying to insult your intelligence or your work ethic!
All of your contributions to this site are valuable and the more detail you offer, the more likely people considering Mary Kay will be helped by all of us.
If we can keep one person from getting snared by an unscrupulous director, it will be worth it!
I am sure we will do more than that, but for now (and always) I want to keep our focus on the individuals whose lives we may impact!
Judi, I just want to let you know that your experience matches mine, even though I live on the other side of the planet. I don't feel cheated by corporate either, but my SD (one of those who became SD 10 months after signing up) will say anything to make people interested in joining/happy about already being in MK.
ReplyDeleteI have heard the exaggerated averages, the understated time calculations, serious questions answered with catchy little slogans. I have consultants of my own that were pitched by her and have confessed afterwards how cheated they feel now.
I just want to let you and everyone else here know that it's not unique, not at all. And as several of you have pointed out, it's all about the greed of individuals, not about the calculated evils of Mary Kay Ash. Going through DIQ does NOT mean that a person is qualified to deal with and lead other women in their business or private life.
Judi, I have always hoped that there are better leaders out there, doing it in a slower, better way. PT always ridicules that idea, and I've left that place feeling empty and sad. This blog, however, combined with a chance I got recently to talk to some other Swedish directors, make me feel that hope again.
I have just decided that even though it's the hard way, I will confront my SD in a nice, concerned way about the way she's behaving. I could let it all go of course, but I don't want others to suffer, including herself. I've decided to do it by email, so that she has ample time to ponder and respond. I will translate my email to English if anyone here wants to read it when I'm done.
*hugs to my fellow mistreated and to the people who have open hearts and ears for us*
matilda...Yes I would let to read your email.
ReplyDeleteJudi,
I have the Mary Kay Words of Wisdom calender and for everyday it has a quote from MKA...
For today December 16...This is what MKA said.
"Sales"
"If you're in sales, putting yourself in the other person's shoes should be an automatic reaction. But instead of focusing on how closing the sale will benefit the customer, too many salespeople are focusing on the commission they'll get. Think in terms of what's good for the other person, and success will seek you out."
I truly believe with all my heart that MKA would have never wanted SDs to act this way. To frontload anyone. To mislead anyone. MKA started this company to help women that wanted to work on their own. I don't think her intentions were to have people in her company or IBC or SD or NSD that would mislead anyone.
I am sorry that your director did you this way and I am sorry that your NSD did too. I want my business to be on the up and up. I don't want to mislead anyone. And when I have recruited I have told those women that it takes hard work and you are not going to start going this and be a millionaire tomorrow. You have to put the time in it to make it work. Will all you classes hold NO they won't.
I do believe that this product is the best and I do feel that if you can get someone to try it they will like it. I know how hard it is to get classes. It is. However I just keep going because I know that one day it will break open.
I am not in anyway saying that you didn't work hard please don't think that I am.
I have one of those stickers on the back of my car and I have gotten alot of ladies that call me, however my car is in town most of the time and a lot of people see it. I know this business can work and I want to work it the right way. I don't front load anyone.
HAVE A GREAT DAY
Judi,
ReplyDeleteObviously you took offense to my post and I am sorry for offending you. But it was not meant to do that but to only get an understanding. If you recall in my post I asked "What do you mean by.."
Of course I am not implying that you believed that you should have been compensated for getting dressed etc..
Apparently I did not do a very good job, but what I was trying to do was state that in any job or working situation there will be times when you will not be immediatly compensated for any extra time that you put in. You may or may not see the fruit of your labor until later. That is what I refer to as "sweat equity".
In home business or self employment situations there are plenty of opportunities for this. And in 8-5 jobs you may work 45-50 hours a week, but you will only be paid for 40 (unless you are an hourly employee who can get overtime.) It happens all the time and is not necessarily deceptive.
Your complaint hinges on the deceptive practices that some SD's have. I dont doubt that there were some willful deceptive practices going on in your unit (especially the way you describe your director), but I was only considering the possibility that there are some things we learn along the way when doing a business and just because we did not know it before it may or may not mean that it was diliberatly (sp?) kept from us. That is why I have a problem with some of your implications that directors are deceptive.
There is purposful willful deception and then there are just some things that a director either did not get around to telling us about or just did not prepare us for. Not out of deception but out of poor leadership. That is why I stated the comment about your beliefs. It sounds like to me that you "may" believe that everything you had to find out on your own adds up to deception or being lied to. It may not be deception but it does speak to the ineffectivness of your director. And we all agree that you had a bad one, whether she was being deceptive on purpose or not.
If you recall in my comment I specifically mentioned things like, talking on the phone and other things that are time comsuming. It sounds as if these are the activities that you say were not factored in when talking about how much time you really have to spend in this business. Referring to the time spent in front of customers as the actual work time is not necessarily deceptive in my point of view. It may be just understood that the rest are things that you just have to sacrafice and do so that you can see results later. Once again, its about what you believe and whether or not you think it is worth it to to put that much time in.
What might be a waste of time to you may be productive time to someone else.
Noone is calling you a moron, or saying that you are ugly. I still cant figure out why you needed to say that you were not ugly, what does that have to do with anything?
I brought up the activities like driving back and forth to work and having to do other things for a job or a business to give examples of things that one is not immediatley compensated for, but you may see return on it later. But you can claim mileage and other expenses (portions of you utilities and home if I am not mistaken) that you incur because of this business on your taxes. Once again it is not immediate and may sound like a waste of time, but you spend the time now and reap the reward later.In Mk it may be 2 weeks or 2 months later or a year later. I just got a team member a few months ago that I had talked to about joining years ago. It happens that way sometimes.
It just sounds like that for you it was not worth the time you have to put in or waiting that long for results. MK did not work out for you as far as the way you choose to spend your time for the results you were getting. It was not a good fit for your life. I would never try to convince someone to do MK if whatever they are already doing is meeting their needs. You mentioned your current endeavor and how it seems to be meeting your needs. That is the whole point..find something that meets your needs. I am not trying to convice you to get back in this business.
Thanks for clearing up how you are still able to get product if you are not an active consultant.
Once again, sorry if I made you feel insulted.
Its just that I was prepared for the ups and downs of this business. I was told about phone time, dealing with customers and all the other things that come with it. I was even told that there will be days that I would wish I hadnt signed up. Because it is hard, but it is a business and these things are expected.
I dont feel lied to or cheated or decieved and I really love it. If I dont do the work, or put the time in then that is when I dont see results. But I can honestly say that when ever I put in the sweat equity, I get the results
The reason I said I was not ugly was because on another site when I gave my experience someone had the audacity (sp?) to imply that maybe my appearance had something to do with it. There was always an excuse as to why it was MY fault that I didn't succeed. And I took no offense.
ReplyDeleteI think another example foreverpink, would be thru most of my career I have done oodles and oodles of facials and classes. The last few months, we have had some very big events happen on the personal side of life that required ALOT of my time. I did manage an open house the last day of November and the 1st day of December, but have had reoders coming in daily. Month to date my sales are over $1500 (it is only the 16th)- unit production is approaching $7K and we finished up requalifiying for our Saturn.
ReplyDeleteI am embarrassed to admit but... no classes, no facials (except the ones at the open house), had to cancel both of my unit meetings this month because of the weather and road conditions. Time actually worked is embarrassing to say and yet, I will be paid hansomely for my sales and my production.
So that work and time invested all along have paid me for not working now.
I usually can't say this but I know I have worked less than 15 -20 a week this month and I will not complain with what I am bringing in. As a matter of fact, as I am writing this I am feeling guilty that I haven't done more and I realize how much I miss doing the classes and facials.
Can't wait for our "come for fun meeting" tomorrow night. It will be se good to see my unit members and find out what is up and how they are doing.
So the hours of work I have put in up to now in return have come back to pay me when I have barely been able to work at all this month.
judi, I truly hope you don't feel that I was saying you didn't work hard enough or you didn't do it right, sometimes it just doesn't work, that all there is to it. I found I had little or no luck with fish bowls however we get awesome leads with solid bookings when we do bridal fairs or home party expos. Some of it comes from being able to chat with the people at the table when they sign up. (and they know what they are signing up for).
ReplyDelete(I had to find a way to meet people and these type of events work for me and my unit, because I hate warm chatting).
As far as directors and initial inventories, I sit with every new unit member and first have her give me a list of all the products she knows she wants to order and then we select the rest together. If I know something is being discontinued, we don't order - that is the way I have operated for the 12 years I have been a director. I will never do a "template" order because all too often a consultant ends up with product she will never sell.
Lastly, if you ever do decide you want to rejoin for the second chance opportunity which is $20 plus tax & s/h to get your product at cost and service a few friends, you are only required to put in a minimum $200 once year (actually it is before the end of the 12 month). And you may join in any unit, under any director you choose, you do not have to rejoin the unit you were in, even if you are using the second chance opportunity. (Just file that knowledge away in case you ever wish you could save some $$).
I hope reading stories form STRT, Pmyst, and myself has restored some faith in directors. Some of us truly take what we do seriously, when I took my position as a director, I took an oath and be golly, if I take an oath, I intend on sticking to my commitment. I hope you can continue to expose the wrong doings and have all directors operate on the up and up.
Glad you found something that works with your family and your schedule that you enjoy, that is what is important.
Have a Merry Christmas!
mkkm, I am sorry I didn't answer your question in your comment, I missed your post. In my time as a director, I have had 4 car drivers. 2 of the girls became directors. Currently I have no car drivers in my personal unit because one got married, moved, got pregnant had a son and then got pregnant again and had twins and it was just too much for her to keep up with the kiddies and production (she remains a consultant and plans some day on becoming a director but that will be quite awhile down the road.
ReplyDeleteThe other had become a director but her husband lost his job and they had no medical insurance. So she took a job so they had medical coverage - between working fulltime and taking care of her kids and then her husband who was in the reserves was activated and deployed, she choose not to requalify for her car and to step down from directorship for now. She continues to be a team leader and plans also on returning to directorship when all settles down in her life. She hasn't yet because it looks like her husband will be deployed again. One of my unit members has requalified for the car while a director.
colleen, thanks for the congrats!
I wanted to add--and maybe someone already said this--in regard to compensation and time; sometimes the compensation is delayed. I have had a few ZERO SALES appointments that were deflating at the time, BUT those ladies wound up ordering later. So, the time I put into their appointment(s) was not time wasted, but time invested for future income. ;)
ReplyDeleteTHE CONTRADICTIONS
ReplyDeleteDavid, maybe we could have a separate posts for these, as they are so numerous. Here are a few to start with:
1) Anti-MKers claim that the market is saturated. They also claim that there really are no end customers. HUH? How can both be true when you sell a consumable product and most adults use some form of something that we sell.
2) Prizes from directors. Anti-MKers claim that the prizes are cheap. But, they also claim that they spent a lot on prizes and other expenses when they were directors. Hmmm. If directors only give out cheap trinkets for prizes, how does that get so expensive? Especially if no one in their units is doing anything as anti-MKers claim.
ONE MORE:
ReplyDelete3) Anti-MKers include all sorts of expenses in the math about how much we earn, including taxes, housekeepers, baby sitters, training, clothing, etc. However, they make no deductions for these types of expenses when they state the amount made by those in other businesses. That's apples and oranges, not apples to apples.
MK4ME, I agree again.
ReplyDeleteEven with those coming in with larger inventories, I do not use a template order. I vary their products based on their age (at first they will sell to mostly friends and family and their friends will be their age), their geographic location (warmer climates do not sell as much foundation or moisture creams, but more bronzer), and how they intend to work their business (appointments, out of the book, cash and carry, as some things are not big sellers when you are not holding appts. and demonstrating them).
Everyone does not need the exact same inventory on their shelf, and I even adjust mine with the seasons. For example, I do not sell a lot of hand cream in the Summer, but at Christmastime, I do.
4) LISTENING TO YOUR DIRECTOR. Many of those who have left MK claim to have listened to their director about inventory, etc. I wonder if they also listened to their director about holding appointments and selling products. Yes, I recommend inventory if you can afford it, want it, and plan to sell it, but I also recommend that you get yourself some appointments booked right away and sell the stuff. It's not fair to blame your director if you took her advice about one and not the other. She gave the advice based on you doing both.
ReplyDelete