An occasional commenter here by the name of blessed (known on Pink Truth as blessedone and in real life as... just kidding, I don't post real names here unless they wish to be posted) posted a comment today on Pink Truth.
"Who could ever imagined there is actually an entity out there that so effectively uses one of the most beautiful, vital attributes one could have (personal faith in Christ) as a sword to cause such damage? Just disgusting. "
I know, right. Blessed, I could not agree with you more! Oh wait, what... you are not talking about Pink Truth? You are talking about Mary Kay? Oh. Well, some people do that and it bothers me too. I don't think that the vast majority of people in Mary Kay are this way.
Moving on, he further states;
"There seems to me to be a strained parallel between the way targets are approached for recruitment into Mary Kay Cosmetics and a sex offender’s “grooming” of victims. The immediate strain of this analogy should be apparent; Mary Kay is not seeking to sexually assault children. Nonetheless, the method of entrapment is similar. Few sex offenders force themselves onto children. They go to great lengths to establish a rapport with the victim, to cultivate and place themselves in a position of trust. This “grooming” process can be extremely successful so long as the perpetrator has the element of time and exposure to the victim. In many instances the victim does not have a complete comprehension of the depth of the deviance being committed. Some victims are actually distraught when the relationship with the offender abruptly ends after the crime is discovered. It’ not unusual for the victim to be remorseful over the loss of a “close friend.” What’s more, many victims wrestle with feelings of guilt, inadequacy, and loss of self esteem following molestation. The similarities are uncanny. "To quote you on this site, "are ya kiddin me?"
The similarities are uncanny?
The reason that "grooming" is so unnerving to the majority of the population is that it bears uncanny resemblance to "normal" behavior.
The reason that it is WRONG is because of what all of that care and attention leads to (namely abusing children).
It is NOT wrong for someone to "woo" a potential business partner/associate/employee in the recruiting process. In most of the good jobs I've had my eventual boss took me to lunch, dinner, coffee throughout the negotiating process. Through the time that I worked for them they also "took care of me" with occasional "thank you" meals, drinks, etc. This is (nod to SHAY) SOP - Standard Operating Procedure. I would not go to my last boss and say, "take me out to dinner tonight or I am going to think that you never really "meant it" when you did it before."
I am glad that you acknowledge that this "parallel" is strained, but in fact they are nothing alike. There is nothing wrong with a full grown man establishing a "rapport" with a child. It is when his intentions are devious that this is appalling.
Most women in Mary Kay do not have devious intentions for the women they are building a rapport with. They simply want to offer them a business proposal. If the rapport building stops when the recipient expresses a lack of interest in what is being offered, is that strange?
*Just found another contradiction!
"Mary Kay ladies will not stop hounding me to sign up, when I say "no" they should just leave me alone"
vs.
"Once she found out I was not interested in me, she stopped talking to me, calling me, taking me to coffee"
Anyway,
Because there are some "predator" like people in MK, I believe that it is accurate to say that THE TACTICS of those individuals (the ones that ARE just being nice to you to try to get your credit card out of your wallet) bear an uncanny resemblance to THE TACTICS of a sex offender.
Thoughts?
I have heard comparisons to a cult, but never this. This is a new low for them. It is really an insult to anyone who has ever been sexually assaulted or abused IMO
ReplyDeleteI think it is great! Talk about alienating people... talk about discrediting themselves! This is AWESOME!!
ReplyDeleteThey are again proving that they have no substance and no facts.
What next.... ? MaryKKK... yep the clan version? mKGB? MKjugend?
Quick... someone call a Doctor.. they need medical help over there... Maybe Dr. Laura? Dr. Phil? I dunno...
Did you catch the comment about how MK and everyone it in are going to hell? Nice.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, it really seems to me that the vast majority of PTers have no experience in either business or sales. Nor have they read the first book about sales or business.
Any seminar/book on sales will tell you a zillion ways to establish a rapport with a potential customer. Different people "speak" a different "language," and to get your point across, you need to learn it and adjust your approach accordingly.
Example:
Some people are visual. They learn and experience things best by seeing. Some learn/experience best by hearing. Some learn/experience by touching.
In general, when you see someone shopping for clothes and they just look, they are visual people. When they are touching the garments, then looking, they are kinesthetic people. If they are asking a friend what they think, they are auditory people.
So a salesperson would know to comment "That looks great on you (if true)" to a visual person. "Doesn't it feel great?" to a kinesthetic person, and "Everyone will say you look great" to an auditory person.
Is this technique dishonest? Not at all - IF what you are saying is sincere. It is a sales technique. (This is an overly simplified version, but you get the drift.) STANDARD BUSINESS PRACTICE.
There are more, of course, but it seems that PTers are getting up in arms over MK giving basic sales training.
Wait, I thought they didn't train you in MK. Hmmmmmmmm
On another note:
ReplyDeleteIs anyone else having trouble with this blog? The only way I can see the posts, etc., is to do a Google search for past posts.
Wierd.
Yes, mkshay, something seems to be awry today! I am having the hardest time navigating the blog today!!
ReplyDeleteDavid, I don't know where to put this rant, so I will put it here. Feel free to move it. LOL
ReplyDeleteThe more I read PT, the more obvious that most of these women did not put a whole lot of effort into making their business work.
If you are in a business that is about sales (especially if you have thousands of dollars in inventory sitting on shelves), did it ever occur to you to go to your bookstore and pick up a book about selling? Marketing? Anything?
There are THOUSANDS of resources available to help you in sales. Literally. There are (non-MK) books, tapes, CD's, DVD's, etc., etc., etc.
When I got my first sales job, I was a very young woman. The ONLY woman in a store full of men. The ONLY woman who had ever worked in that store. I can assure you that not only did I need to sell to make money, but I had to sell to make a point.
I started by reading every sales book I could find. I attended every training and sat in the front row of every one. I did not win every sales contest, but I came close.
My point is that I could have easily whined about the company not training me well enough and not amounting to much of a salesperson, but I didn't.
I knew that I was the one responsible for my paycheck, not anyone else.
JMHO, but I wish some of the people on PT would learn that.
Pinknight, you are so right. It is danged if you do, or danged if you don't.
ReplyDeleteIf you layer a recruit, it is like a "sex offender" or "stalking". If you don't, it is like "attacking" or being too pushy.
I'm not too shocked at this considering Blessed said it. He is a bit over the top and still lets MK control his thoughts. That makes me a bit sad for him and some of the others on PT. Not only did they apparently have what they percieve to have been a terrible MK experience, now they allow MK to fester inside instead of just living and learning.
This victim mentality is soooo old. I mean, are they claiming that they are as innocent as a 5 or 6 year old and MK tainted them? That is absolutely preposterous! Not to mention the fact that they are putting themselves down by basically saying they were too naive to know how to run THEIR business, so they were led into immoral practices or credit card charging frenzies.
When you are your own boss, there is no one to place the blame on but yourself. It is a matter of not having boundaries. If I don't want to order, I don't. Period. And if my director never spoke to me again, so be it. (This is highly unlikely...just an example). In life, you will sometimes disappoint people, including your team, your director, your NSD, and even yourself. I do not think it is the responsibility of the recruiter to ensure a recruit is mature enough to sell MK and take responsibility for their actions. They need to do their homework, ask around,and ask very pointed questions BEFORE ACTING/ORDERING/SIGNING. I sure did. This is the way to avoid being a so-called "victim" in MK.
Ok, as usual, I am the devil's advocate. I can see both sides.
ReplyDeleteFirst, when I read the post at PT my eyes started rolling. Were they serious?? MK=sexual predators? Is the writer of that post having hallucinations?
Pinkmyst, I think you just gave some on PT some GREAT names. I wouldn't be suprised if someone started calling themselves MaryKKK. That was a good one!
As for the teaching how to sell, I don't think that's selling. That's manipulating. When I walk into Best Buy no one gets down on my level and touches my arm while looking in my eyes. I think I would have to taze them. No one asks you to touch something, at least not seriously. You might run into something like that at a skeezy used car dealership, but not a reputable company. If someone wants to buy something I don't think it should be that hard to sell it to them. If you have to use their personality and charactor against them are you really selling? Or manipulating them into doing something? I never agreed with that part. Maybe that's why I wasn't consistant in my selling. I just know that when I signed up and got all the "Training Material" and saw what some of it was and how it was used on me, I felt dirty.
Good morning ,
ReplyDeleteWell, when I walk into best buy I would hope that they wouldn't touch me. It is a store that sells dvd's and computers and things. However they at best buy will ask you to try the computer they have it set up. The will ask you to take a look through that camera and see what you think.
Go to a makeup counter and see what they do. They want you to put it on and see how you like it. How is that manipulating? If you pressure someone then yes that might be. You need to compare cosmetic companies. You can't really to a comparsion with a company that sells computer and things with a company that sells makeup.
I do think that some of the things in MK are over the top but not all. I think that try it before you buy it is a good thing. Oh you mentioned a car dealership do you not first drive the car to see if you like it. Does the car salesman say oh this is great car how do you like the way that it handles. They are in business to sell you that car. In business we are in it to make a sell and for the customer to try before they buy so that they can see how if makes their skin feel and to see if they like it. That does not mean that it is a hard sell.
The beauty about MK is that you are independent and you can work it the way that you want to. You are your own boss. Most can't grasp this concept and that is sad. Most of the people that you are dealing with are grown and they know how to say NO if they don't want something.
Now as for those LOONES over on pink untruth. They are really awful. Saying that if you are in MK that you are going to HELL. I beg to differ. Let's see most women in MK are God fearing women, you know the WORD says that you are know by the fruit that you bare. Let's look at what kind of fruit pt bares. It is not very good. It is putting down people, they make fun of people. They do everything that they can to make MKC and the people that are in MK look bad at all cost. Does anyone really think that this is Christ like behavior. I am telling you I am mad and I am asking the Lord to give me the grace to pray for those on that board.
Then to compare us to sexual predators....OH MY. I telling you I can't even believe that they would say this. Blessed is the one that said it and he is supposed to be a Christian don't think he is acting Christ like.
Well Have good day
This isn't the first time someone on PT has made this gross comparison b/w MK and a sex offendor. I've also seen posts in the past comparing MK to an abusive spouse, cheating man, and a rapist. Foreverpink is right--someone who was actually a victim of these CRIMES would most definitely be offended at these comparisons.
ReplyDeleteTo address comparing selling makeup to Best Buy...that's not a relevant comparison as Pink Bren pointed out. If you're going to compare, then start by comparing it to a store that works on commission. As far as I know, Best Buy employees don't make a commission except in the cell phone department and possibly electronics. Also, the products are not similar.
ReplyDeleteCompare MK to walking past the cosmetics counter at a department store. Those people make a commission from their sales. I've walked by many cosmetics counters and there have been women standing in the walkway waiting to hand out perfume samples or offer facials. I was sprayed randomly at Bloomingdale's. That would be a viable comparison. However, I didn't leave Bloomingdale's feeling violated because someone sprayed perfume at me...
I suppose you could compare the tactics, but why compare something that is equivalent to a corporate crime to a sex crime? If they were actual crimes, different areas of a police dept. would investigate. I would think bad business practice is bad business practice; corporate crime is corporate crime; sex crime is sex crime. Comparing MK to sexual assault is just a shock tactic in my opinion. It's not even a comparison I would take seriously except that it is more hurtful to someone who was a victim of a sex crime or domestic violence.
I was comparing selling tactics. Not what is being sold. And I have never had someone at the perfume counter get down on my level and look sincerely in my eyes while telling I would be perfect doing what she does. Not even the females at Merle Norman.
ReplyDeleteNot sure why the name came up as anonymous.
Of course someone at a department store wouldn't ask you to do what she does. It's not part of the business model at a department store to recruit new sales reps. Besides, in that setting, the fewer sales reps the more commission for those who are there. It's a different business model as far as the hiring goes.
ReplyDeleteIt isn't wrong to ask people if they want to be a consultant, but I do think people tend to get frenzied at times and come off as crazy when asking anyone and everyone to sign up. When I started thinking about MK, I had no idea how to become a consultant. No one asked me if I'd like to do it. NO ONE! I'm not offended, but at the same time, since no one asked me, who's to say that maybe someone I sell to isn't thinking about it and just doesn't know how to sign up. This is where I do think taking a guest to an event can help. I had a few people come with me as guests and by the end of the event they said they were thinking they'd like to sign up. And no one sat at their level and directly said to them they thought they'd be great. The info was simply presented and those who were interested expressed their interest.
Appealing to someone's personality isn't manipulating. The MK business is about building relationships. Sales in general, is about building relationships. That is how you build customer loyalty. You want your customers to feel you understand them and care about them (and you should genuinely care about them). Sales really teaches us to be good listeners and observers. Based on observation made of personality types, you can gage how to talk to your clients about the products and, in direct sales, about the business opportunity. It's really called communicating.
I can totally see your point, Judi, where the tactics for recruiting can be mudddied by overzealous DIQ's or what not, but I think there are better ways to express it than comparing them to sex offenders. To me, that comparison is a desperate cry for attention and is just plain stupid. What makes it go sour is when the only purpose for talking to a potential team member or customer is dollars. It's not about us; it's about THEM (the client/prospect/whatever).
Thank you Shay, I am glad that you have seen these people for their true selves.
ReplyDeleteI do not even know what to say about or to Blessed. The fact that those no longer in MK, or married to someone no longer in MK, or who have never been in MK, would give so much time and attention to MK is bizarre to me. One of their favorite "writers" posted the other day about "1 year later" , blah, blah, and I almost laughed. A year later, she hasn't moved on at all!
Blessed, this is a real stretch. Do you go out into society at all? All sales people, all of those in the corporate hierarchy, and a host of others do work at relationships to benefit their business. For me, it's not JUST for my business though, and I think that is true for most MKers. AND, it is certainly not with intent to do any harm to the other person. We truly feel that we are helping them, and many have thanked me for exactly that.