tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post2229169751667654911..comments2023-10-14T05:42:23.964-07:00Comments on The Truth About Mary Kay: Pink Truth and Balanced Mary Kay Joining forces to expose Mary Kay?Jon Bironhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06398467008484819674noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-63701334237040900102008-08-17T01:48:00.000-07:002008-08-17T01:48:00.000-07:00Colleen, you are a sweetie!Colleen, you are a sweetie!mk4mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14992824203382935206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-73589419700428876452008-08-16T19:24:00.000-07:002008-08-16T19:24:00.000-07:00OH for the record I have no proof that these two l...OH for the record I have no proof that these two ladies are directors by the way. I believe them and take their word for it. The only proof I have is my heart and most of the time its right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-31068452096388895252008-08-16T19:22:00.000-07:002008-08-16T19:22:00.000-07:00"Welcome to P4C! You are the type of ex-Mary Kay p..."Welcome to P4C! You are the type of ex-Mary Kay person who I would love to talk with. Your avoidance of drama, name calling, and theatrics makes you more credible than the extremists, and I think you can serve to do good for those still in Mary Kay and those who are no longer with the company, so thank you for your time and your willingness to look at the situation with some objectivity."<BR/><BR/>Thanks STRT! One of the things I've learned through a variety of situations is that as soon as you put someone on the defensive the conversation is essentially over because it is likely that the person will shut down. Unfortunately thats what I see happen a lot on a couple of the anti-mk websites. MK consultants will go there and they are put on the defensive and the conversation goes downhill from there. Or "hate mail" will appear on those sites and then the anti-mk people get defensive and it just increases the hatred towards MK when I am somewhat suspicious that some of the hate mail might be fabricated. Too much of it sounds exactly the same and has exactly the same grammatical errors. As far as I recall they didn't remove my brain and grammer skills when I joined MK and give them back when I sent back my product :-P Thats a sidebar though. <BR/><BR/>Sometimes I try to figure out why I am stil hanging around MK websites and I think it is partially becasue I want people to understand that its okay to be okay with not being a mk success story. Over in PT land there are a lot of women who really believe that their lives are over because of their experience with MK and I feel sad for them. That is a hard place to be. I have had different events in my life where I felt like I would never piece my life back together. But I did. In my opinion the only thing that should keep you down is six feet of dirt and we will all be there someday. Short of that I think life is about building and rebuilding over and over again. I stay around the MK community so that as people come and go through MK they know that no business is the be all and end all of life.Praying4couragehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13960760788808658577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-2023583600169442892008-08-16T19:20:00.000-07:002008-08-16T19:20:00.000-07:00That statement was meant as a compliment to speaki...That statement was meant as a compliment to speaking the real truth and MK4me. I was in NO way asking them to prove themselves! I want to thank you all for understanding. What I meant was that they really dont have anything to prove and that because they DO take the time to help on this blog and have people see both sides and what MK is really about (depending on what you as an individual make of it) it made me wonder (in the beginning) were they really directors the FIRST time they came on. I mean one week of postings in the beginning. David had to be fair and address me the way he would anyone else and I understand that. After the one week of postings (months ago) <BR/>there was no doubt in my mind they were directors. I was just wondering after doing skin care classes, and newsletters, and meetings and anything else like unit meetings how they would even have time to look all of these comments over. It goes to show you some (more than we think) directors really do care and want to uphold the standards that Mary Kay Ash wanted to hand down to future generations. Thanks ladies for doing that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-60498440975325461842008-08-16T18:27:00.000-07:002008-08-16T18:27:00.000-07:00BTW, that does bring up the fact that many anti-Ma...BTW, that does bring up the fact that many anti-Mary Kay people want proof of our situations, but provide no proof of their own. I am not talking about reiterating your tax info. for everyone, proof would be to import it directly onto the site as a photo.<BR/><BR/>I do think that if one makes claims about their income in recruiting situations, they should be prepared to back it up. I can back up my highest check and could get a statement from my accountant as to my average annual expenses. However, I've not run into that situation, as I usually talk about averages for the company as a whole and explain that her earnings will be commensurate with her efforts. I make few, if any, promises to anyone about the opportunity, because each situation is different. If I promise someone something, it would be that she has the buyback, or that I would help her build her business, etc., not that she would earn a certain amount of money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-31611223873472789922008-08-16T18:22:00.000-07:002008-08-16T18:22:00.000-07:00Colleen, thank you for your kind words, and I will...Colleen, thank you for your kind words, and I will answer that no, Colleen, nor anyone else here really knows for sure who I am, or what my position is with Mary Kay, you only have my words and the knowledge that I present as any type of proof. Nor will I be proving anything to anyone any more than any other bloggers will be submitting copies of their birth certificates, photo ID, etc.<BR/><BR/>Colleen is however on to something. My busy life and dedication to my family and business are why I disappear for periods of time, and why I have not agreed to be an author. I feel that I could not do it justice, and at times would not have the opportunity to defend my articles properly, etc. Being an all or nothing personality, I am trying to not put myself into a position to take away from other things that I value greatly by getting consumed with debate. I often refrain from commenting on certain topics as they are not pressing to me, but when something that I have strong feelings about comes up, I chime in as I can, sometimes more often than others.<BR/><BR/>One thing that I think would make a good article and for good discussion would be the fact that I believe in order to be a good sales director, you must be self motivating. Every director needs to be a good consultant, but then she also must be able to transition herself and motivate herself, manage her time, and be able to teach and transfer the skills that make her personally successful.<BR/><BR/>Welcome to P4C! You are the type of ex-Mary Kay person who I would love to talk with. Your avoidance of drama, name calling, and theatrics makes you more credible than the extremists, and I think you can serve to do good for those still in Mary Kay and those who are no longer with the company, so thank you for your time and your willingness to look at the situation with some objectivity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-72337493001068901502008-08-16T18:17:00.000-07:002008-08-16T18:17:00.000-07:00mk4me,I think that your posts speak for themselves...mk4me,<BR/><BR/>I think that your posts speak for themselves.<BR/><BR/>I truly believe that anyone that reads here can tell that you are a director. The insights that you share really can't be forged or faked.<BR/><BR/>That being said, my only point to Colleen was/is that the manner in which she pointed this out goes against the "burden of evidence" that I require from people.<BR/><BR/>Apparently this is confusing to some... and I really don't want to make a big thing about it. I know you are a director. It seems that Colleen knows that you are a director. I have no doubt that most people reading this blog can easily discern that you are a director.<BR/><BR/>However, if someone is going to go out of their way (as I feel that Colleen did) to assure everyone of something being an undeniable "fact", there needs to be proof. And I really don't want anyone to "prove" publicly that you are a director.<BR/><BR/>To everyone reading this:<BR/><BR/>I (David Shepherd) know that "mk4me" is a director. I know this. You can either believe me or not. <BR/><BR/>***<BR/><BR/>am i making sense or just rambling?Jon Bironhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06398467008484819674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-69168547591128792732008-08-16T17:40:00.000-07:002008-08-16T17:40:00.000-07:00David, I can not speak for STRT but I can say for ...David, I can not speak for STRT but I can say for myself, I am a real director, and with the info you have on me, I am sure you can attest to the "fact" that I am a director. <BR/><BR/>If I want people to take anything I say seriously, I think it best that it is known I speak from experience, not my *ss. So David, would you please attest to the fact that I am a director?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-65359034847709663552008-08-16T15:16:00.000-07:002008-08-16T15:16:00.000-07:00Blessed,That's more like it. I also hope that oth...Blessed,<BR/><BR/>That's more like it. I also hope that others will add to the list.<BR/><BR/>Thank you.<BR/><BR/>Colleen,<BR/><BR/>In the interest of holding all to the same standard, I need to ask, "How do you <B>know</B> they are both directors?"<BR/><BR/>If you know because you have met with them personally and/or exchanged emails with them in which they "proved" they were directors, that's one thing. However, I would guess that if that is the case, they would not want you "proving" it to everyone here as that would be a little to personally revealing (most likely).<BR/><BR/>If, on the other hand, you are going based on nothing more than you have read here (as I do), than you can not possible <B>know</B> that they really are directors.<BR/><BR/>I try not to show partiality in my demand for people not to make definitive statements that can not be legitimately backed up in the same forum they are made.<BR/><BR/>I, like you, have every reason to believe that these two are indeed "real live" Mary Kay directors. However, there is no need to make such a declarative statement about them. Simply put, please use caution when such assertions. Thanks.Jon Bironhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06398467008484819674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-47969019697168667242008-08-16T14:56:00.000-07:002008-08-16T14:56:00.000-07:00I am totally amazed at how speaking the right trut...I am totally amazed at how speaking the right truth and mk4me even take the time out of their BUSY days to even help and contribute to this blog. I used to think these two are not directors they are just pretending and being nice...LOL We are blessed (no pun intended blessed aka deleted) to even have them here on this blog/forum. If I were a director and happy with the career I dont even know if I would take the time to address some of these issues. Knowing me I would Im a softee that way. If anyone is lurking rest assured that these two are directors and that they speak the truth and that if you give it a sincere effort 6 months to a year even if its one class a week you can make minimum in MK an extra 50-75.00 a week minimum and I would bet more than that after reorders at one class a week if you dont do any recruiting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-38147565990538080952008-08-16T14:54:00.000-07:002008-08-16T14:54:00.000-07:00Dave,Good question.I suppose I’m simply apt to fal...Dave,<BR/><BR/>Good question.<BR/><BR/>I suppose I’m simply apt to fall into my own spiel because I’m so passionate about it.<BR/><BR/>Some things both camps have in common, I believe may be the following:<BR/><BR/>-Passion about our beliefs<BR/>-A desire to see victimization of women end (at least I hope many in MK want to see this)<BR/>-Embarrassment over the tactics used to manipulate in the MK MLM (many MK survivors used these tactics at one time too)<BR/>-Recognition of the value of personal faith<BR/>-Recognition of the value of social circles<BR/>-Endorsement, generally, of the value of the MK product (many MK opportunity survivors still use the products)<BR/><BR/>I hope others can add to this list.<BR/><BR/>Blessed (Deleted)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-55646921104138151912008-08-16T13:54:00.000-07:002008-08-16T13:54:00.000-07:00"And that's maybe the biggest problem with women i..."And that's maybe the biggest problem with women in MK - They don't understand how MK victimizes people, takes advantage of their weaknesses, destroys them financially, and leaves them less whole than before. As long as they pretend MK is good, they're not responsible for destroying people's lives"<BR/><BR/>Beth, <BR/>As you read this reply keep in mind that it is coming from someone who did lose a large amount of money from my MK venture and sent back my inventory. <BR/>To this day I feel like my recruiter did take advantage of my weaknesses. I was a college freshmen and I was having trouble fitting in because I had taken time off before starting college and the age thing was an issue in my social life there. My recruiter (a senior at the college) kind of swooped in and made me feel like she was my new best friend and that we would have sooo much fun being MK friends. To make a long story short it didn't work out that way. She was planning to move to a different state long before she recruited me and it just wasn't what I thought it was and I didnt' know how to run a business and I lost a lot of money still battling that. <BR/>BUT--- am I a victim, less than a whole person, is my life destroyed? NO!!!! I'm not those things because I CHOOSE not to be those things. No one can destroy your life of make you less than whole without your permission. There are very few things in life that we totally control but one of them is how we react to our situation. People go through things that are horrible life changing events and they come out the other end as productive and happy people. I have a friend who as a teenager was involved in an accident where he and some friends ended up in a high water situation and he was the only one who made it out alive. When he talks about it he gets emotional but he doesn't let it dictate the rest of his life. He went onto college and graduate school and he is now a researcher. He grieved and he moved on. When I hear you say that lives are devistated and people are made less than whole by a makeup company I just think there is a time for mourning a loss of friends and opportunity in your life but there is also a time to move on and not let your entire life be affected.Praying4couragehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13960760788808658577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-43581407604143159872008-08-16T13:26:00.000-07:002008-08-16T13:26:00.000-07:00B,you conclude:"So then, the more I think about it...B,<BR/><BR/>you conclude:<BR/><BR/><I>"So then, the more I think about it, the more I like the premise of the instant article. What are the common themes, areas of agreement, promoted by those on both sides of the “opportunity” issue?"</I><BR/><BR/>Then why would you post this long, divisive comment that only serves to reinforce your position and opinion that you know is <B>not</B> an area of agreement or common theme?Jon Bironhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06398467008484819674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-41313276704708113562008-08-16T12:22:00.000-07:002008-08-16T12:22:00.000-07:00Objections about a comparison of the actual assaul...Objections about a comparison of the actual assaults experienced by rape victims and MK MLM victims are warranted. Again, I believe there is no comparison in the depth and seriousness of injury. Again, I apologize to any soul out there who has been a victim of sexual assault who may have taken offense or otherwise experienced discomfort because of unpleasant memories my analogy stirred. I’m sorry. Now then, I believe my apology for any unintended offensiveness or misunderstanding has been inclusive. I will regard any further suggestion I am equating the severity of rape victimization with MK MLM victimization as too close to histrionics to warrant any additional response.<BR/><BR/>To the extent my analogy captures the similarities between the way some victims of assault and some victims of the MK MLM are inappropriately blamed for their victimization, I make no apology. This was my intent. <BR/><BR/>STRT,<BR/><BR/>I want to acknowledge your comment about your belief my ethics are sound, regardless of how wrong I may be about the MK MLM opportunity. Thank you. Also, you captured my sentiments correctly; I DO believe the best solution for the MK MLM problem is for those involved to get out now or never get in at all. <BR/><BR/>Please know I have no objections to MK products. In fact, as I understand it, the products are regarded in most circles as being pretty good (perhaps a bit overpriced). In short, I cannot comment with any significant validity about the quality of the products. I mention this to draw a contrast between the “products” and the “opportunity.” My objections surround the sale and promotion of the “opportunity.” <BR/><BR/>Perhaps one day Mary Kay Cosmetics Corporation will decide there is a market for their products which can support a distribution system which doesn’t victimize women by design as (I believe) their current MLM sales model does. I am particularly offended by the haughty MK MLM claim that they “enrich women’s lives.” This phrase I find particularly disgusting because, at the end of the day, we are left with nothing but conjecture and anecdotes. Ya see, if the MK MLM would adopt the business opportunity rules (or something close to them) suggested by the Federal Trade Commission, women would know just how many lives are “enriched” as opposed to how many women are churned like so much cannon fodder. Although I don’t know the actual numbers (and I believe nobody outside MKC does) I do know one thing for sure: TOO MANY women are victimized by the MK MLM. <BR/><BR/>Wouldn’t it be nice to see MKC blow us “Negative Nellies” out of the water with a release of objective numbers revealing the churn rate in the MK MLM? Isn’t their inaction re such a release of information sort of an indictment? Isn’t that what would be best for all concerned, honesty, professionalism, integrity? You yourself have written a piece lending credence to this sentiment. Not too long ago you wrote a piece about (if I recall correctly) the need to stop the insanity re warm chatting in Target. Great stuff! Doesn’t it bother you that MKC doesn’t respond to objections about their MLM by simply saying, “Oh that’s wrong, we do offer a wonderful opportunity; here are our annual numbers, etc.”? If I were in your position one call I’d consider making would be to MKC saying, “Hey, do us a favor will ya, clear this thing up; release a few spreadsheets, will ya”? My guess is this could reduce successful promotion of the “opportunity” too much for such a release of information to be fiscally feasible.<BR/><BR/>Isn’t that what the entire discussion is about, the victimization of women? It’s not (I suggest) about the operator of this or another blog. It’s about the continued swindling of women through a polished confidence scam.<BR/><BR/>Mk4me,<BR/><BR/>Good afternoon. There are wonderful people both in and out of Mary Kay Cosmetics. Wouldn’t it be nice if the MK MLM problem could be chalked up to merely poor behavior by a number of “bad” IBCs and Directors? Boy oh boy!!! All that’d be necessary then would be to round’em up and move‘em out! The truth is, I believe, the problem is largely institutional, rather than individual. Ya see, at some point you’ve got to stop pulling the dead bodies out of the river and run up stream to address why the dead bodies are going into the river in the first place. <BR/><BR/>So then, the more I think about it, the more I like the premise of the instant article. What are the common themes, areas of agreement, promoted by those on both sides of the “opportunity” issue? <BR/><BR/>Blessed (Deleted)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-39273013708447866282008-08-16T11:08:00.000-07:002008-08-16T11:08:00.000-07:00I have also offered in the past to answer any ques...I have also offered in the past to answer any questions perhaps David may not be able to as far as being a director, I even set up a different email account if someone would like to contact me privately - I just can't promise the response will always be timely- <BR/>When I first sawy this post, I had a knee jerk reaction to the title- and them read the first few comments and thought, I guess I can see what David attempting to point out. I have returned to my initial opinion- it is not worded right.<BR/><BR/>We are at BMK are trying to expose poor behavior of some individuals involved in Mary Kay. PT is trying to destroy MK - big difference. <BR/><BR/>We on occassion read about "dirty cops" or "cops on the take" - they are found out and terminated from the force and charge legally if it is criminal. <BR/>I don't see destroy the police department websites. <BR/><BR/>Same diff - bad people involved in a good but not perfect system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-76313403590576506182008-08-16T07:49:00.000-07:002008-08-16T07:49:00.000-07:00Rape and Mary Kay are not even in the same ball pa...Rape and Mary Kay are not even in the same ball park. Get real Blessed, we've been down this road before.<BR/><BR/>See David, with extremists who want to put Mary Kay on the level of rape, how could you possibly think that we could join together to correct the few problems that Mary Kay has? This is the problem, the extremists do not want to fix anything! Many on that site have never even been a consultant! They do not even have a dog in the race.<BR/><BR/>As usual, I agree with most everything MK4ME said. <BR/><BR/>I really hate that the topic has digressed with another ridiculous comparison from Blessed/Deleted. And to think, I even sort of complemented early in the post. But, then again, this is one of the things that Blessed does best~run us off on tangents.<BR/><BR/>David, early on when these blogs started, there were many within Mary Kay who tried to have rational discussions with the anti-Mary Kay groups and some of the leaders of those blogs. You should do some research on that. I saw anyone who defended Mary Kay ripped to shreds, even on so called "balanced" blogs. If the "other site" wanted to engage in discussion, they would open their site up to all of us and allow all comments (of course unless they were profane, etc.) I remember when I read my first of these blogs, I though, "well they just do not understand". Later I realized that they have no desire to understand anything other than their viewpoint. All the while, there are plenty of us on sites like this who acknowledge that Mary Kay or anything else is perfect. <BR/><BR/>David, you are right that many are just joining in the lynch mob over there, and that is encouraged. Many of those people have wound up hurt all over again through these blogs, and that is unfortunate.<BR/><BR/>I am happy to talk with anyone who had a negative Mary Kay experience, if they are willing to be honest and respectful. Mary Kay is not perfect and it is not for everyone. I would even be happy to counsel someone who is in a negative Mary Kay situation about what best to do about it, ie; who to contact at corporate, if this is really the best choice for them, have they been misled somewhere, or are there things that they need to change. I do not care anything about working with the leadership of "that site". If you want to go there, you are on your own, but from what I have read elsewhere, I would recommend that you go in with full armor on and would suggest that you not extend any amount of trust.<BR/><BR/>What I would suggest is that those who are having difficulty with their business, come on over here and tell us about it. We will help you sort it out and the only answer will not be to just "quit". Quitting may be the answer for some, but most just need help and guidance to turn this into a good business for they and their families.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-69430030344807755882008-08-16T06:17:00.000-07:002008-08-16T06:17:00.000-07:00Beth said... And that's maybe the biggest problem ...Beth said... <BR/>And that's maybe the biggest problem with women in MK - They don't understand how MK victimizes people, takes advantage of their weaknesses, destroys them financially, and leaves them less whole than before. As long as they pretend MK is good, they're not responsible for destroying people's lives.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if anyone has heard there is this word it is not new it has been around for a along time it is "NO". If you are getting into financial trouble with your MK that is not the fault of anyone but you. You don't have to place that order. I am not in debt because of my MK if I don't have the money to order guess what I don't. Can people not read. If you sign up with MK you should read what the contract says. Why on earth would one just go blindly into something without checking it out. <BR/><BR/>Again I will ask "WHERE IS THE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY?" If you get caught up in the hype or whatever is that the fault of anyone? Those on pt are caught in hype not to help women there are there to try and bring down a company. Most are mean spirited and they are unethical they were this way in MK and they are this way in pt. <BR/><BR/>Here is the thing MK is a business and if you are a Consultant you are now a business owner. I can tell you that I own another business also. I have to work it as a business. In my hair salon I don't order things that I don't need and yes I have to order it for a distributor and then I resale it. If I don't need it guess what it doesn't matter if they are giving away something else if I order this or that if I don't need it I DON'T ORDER IT. It comes again to personal responsiibilty.<BR/><BR/>Let me say this if you think for one minute that people only lie in MK think again. There are unethical people everywhere not just in MK. <BR/><BR/>I think that if the women on pt would have spent as much time as they do downing MK working their MK business when they were in it they would have probably been successful. This is just my opinion and I just get sick and tired of hearing she made me order this or that. No one can make you do anything that you are not willing to do. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. That is where it lies.<BR/><BR/>And now about using rape and MK together. When people are raped they really didn't have a choice that was taken from them. In MK you have a choice no one takes your money from you and makes you push that botton. Rape should not have been used that I think was pretty mean you don't know how many people on this or any other blog have been raped and you don't know what they could have done to them to bring that up. I think that was pretty mean and shouldn't have been done. Blessed you claim to be a Christian man well that was not something that I would think a Christian man would have done.<BR/>Hope everyone has a GREAT DAYPink Brenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00440971527646637214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-10807726389395107312008-08-16T05:53:00.000-07:002008-08-16T05:53:00.000-07:00And that's maybe the biggest problem with women in...And that's maybe the biggest problem with women in MK - They don't understand how MK victimizes people, takes advantage of their weaknesses, destroys them financially, and leaves them less whole than before. As long as they pretend MK is good, they're not responsible for destroying people's lives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-42862475235486941332008-08-15T23:29:00.000-07:002008-08-15T23:29:00.000-07:00I don't see the two sites with the same mission. ...I don't see the two sites with the same mission. Here we want to give examples of how to do things right and how to make things work without manipulating the system or people. We want to find ways to improve a situation if there is room for improvement. <BR/><BR/>PT - could take this same approach - warning people of the mistakes they made so that others could proceed and NOT repeat the same mistakes. They don't use this approach - it is destoy because we didn't have a good experience. Revenge. Making fun of next years prototype of next year's directors suit is not helpful, making fun of outfits at seminar, etc... aren't helping anyone heal. <BR/><BR/>Actually, I think some of them spend more time researching stuff on MK now than they did when they were in MK. And now they have no chance of getting paid for it. <BR/><BR/>This is just my opinion but if they already had such a bad experience with MK and it already has cost them so much, why give MK another minute of your time. Just doesn't make sense to me. (after an initial "healing") - from the outside looking in, they still just need to "belong".<BR/>Many probably were not the "cheerleaders" in high school, they were in the band and are still just trying to fit in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-83012096172021476602008-08-15T22:46:00.000-07:002008-08-15T22:46:00.000-07:00Blessed, didn't you need to apologize before for c...Blessed, didn't you need to apologize before for comparing a rape victim to an Mk victim? Before you make a comparison that really shouldn't be made, perhaps you should think about those you are offending. We should learn from our mistakes and not make them again. I am grateful I can't begin to experience the pain a rape survivor must experience, but it upsets me plenty to see you make this comparison. - please for respect of all readers, don't do it again. <BR/><BR/>Rape is a act of violence - it is perpetrated against a persons will. In Mk - people willing enter into a contract and sign a legal document. If those believe everything and don't get themselves educated on how business should work - that is on them. I guess one could be classified as a victim of ignorance but not of your "MK MLM".<BR/><BR/>praying4courage, may I applaud you for your very civil response. I just can't be as diplomatic as you on this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-44329904704943796562008-08-15T20:07:00.000-07:002008-08-15T20:07:00.000-07:00Personally I don't think that there is anything wr...Personally I don't think that there is anything wrong with MK. I don't know why people just can't take personal responsibility. If you are letting people talk you into things is that the other persons fault NO it is yours. Learn to say NO. I think that MK is a good business for some and for others it is not. The key here is it is business.<BR/><BR/>Joining forces to expose MK...David do you honestly think that this blog and that one even line up. I don't think that MK is broke...I will ask again Why can't people take responsibility for their actions? We have become a Nation of blaming everyone for our problems except for the person where the problem exist. You know if you want to join forces with them that would be ok if you would be allowed to post over there if you are in MK and still like it. The only thing that tc wants to do is tear MK down she doesn't care about the people that it does support and their families. I have been reading these blogs for a long time and I can tell you from what I have witness tc is a mean women. She is a little off that she would stalk some women that like MK and out them. <BR/><BR/>I think that the people on pt have just changed it for MK. They have a leader and that would be tc and she will not allow anything but bad about MK over there and if someone goes against her she kicks them off. I know this too from personal experience I have posted and my post last maybe 2 minutes at the most and then like magic they were gone. <BR/><BR/>David...What do you want exposed??<BR/><BR/>Have a GREAT EVENINGPink Brenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00440971527646637214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-74908728462994308332008-08-15T18:03:00.000-07:002008-08-15T18:03:00.000-07:00Pickle? Cucumber? I can't help but to chuckle......Pickle? Cucumber? I can't help but to chuckle...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-86671356822100946392008-08-15T15:37:00.000-07:002008-08-15T15:37:00.000-07:00Praying4courage,I like your analogy. The informat...Praying4courage,<BR/><BR/>I like your analogy. The information about the MK MLM on PT and other places serves not only those in MK crisis, it also, I believe, helps many learn to avoid the entire mess in the first place (thank you Google). I believe (anecdotally) the vast majority who sign up for the MK MLM exit the experience less whole (financial loss, damage to relationships, self esteem, etc,). Warning women before such loss is suffered is a valuable component of PT (and this site) as is helping victimized women during transition from the fog to survivor status. <BR/><BR/>There’s another part. It’s playing an ongoing role in helping others. This, I believe, is why many continue to contribute to information outlets about the MK MLM long after they’re out. Because of my limited ability to illustrate it otherwise, I’ll call it a “12th step.” Now, contrary to what some may say, I believe participation in the MK MLM is not an addiction, not anywhere close. It may be at times compulsive, but nothing approaching addiction. Nonetheless, I believe there may be some of the same fulfillment from warning others about the MK MLM as that experienced by someone in recovery who is working the 12th step. The 12th step in the addiction recovery process (support groups) refers to carrying the message to others. Simply doing so is, in itself, fulfilling. There’s a good feeling that naturally comes from helping others avoid pain. This, I believe, may be a large reason MK MLM survivors continue to occasionally contribute to information outlets about the “opportunity” following their exit from the “dream.”<BR/><BR/>People change. Strongly held belief systems can be remolded, evolve. Sometimes the only two requirements are time and information. Consider Dave. My limited perspective suggests he may be evolving. He is by no means a pickle yet, but he is not today (I believe) the cucumber he was when his wife first signed the dotted line. Who would have thought he’d one day publish an article on his blog promoting recognition of shared concepts of women’s advocacy common to this blog and PT. <BR/><BR/>BlessedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-85175256984892370412008-08-15T14:06:00.000-07:002008-08-15T14:06:00.000-07:00Blessed, I want to reply to you again because I th...Blessed, <BR/>I want to reply to you again because I think you might be right and that I may not have given enough thought to the victim/survivor comment that I made. What I did was generalize too much and thats never really a good thing. I should know that from all the sociology classes I've taken (hehe or slept through!). You are right that for some PT is a step in the healing process. Actually it was for me as well. PT did serve a purpose in my movement away from MK and I'm not sure I would have been able to send back my inventory without the information I found there. But it was just a step and it was one I couldnt' stay in too long. I think what would have been more accurate for me to say rather than that PT makes victims instead of survivors would be to say that there is a danger of falling into the victim mode if someone stays in that mindset too long. I see it sort of like when I was a nurse's aide and I worked with post-orthopedic surgery patients. It is okay to spend a while laying in bed in pain (we'll call this victim phase) but if the joint is ever going to return to normal and feel right again then it is necessary to get up and walk on it and eventually leave the hospital (survivor phase). PT does serve a purpose in my opinion for those who are still needing to be upset about their losses in MK. But when I see people on there who have been out for 10 years I start to wonder what is keeping them stuck.Praying4couragehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13960760788808658577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1716666792083573252.post-70220890892660393402008-08-15T12:48:00.000-07:002008-08-15T12:48:00.000-07:00Praying 4courage,In your last note you mentioned …...Praying 4courage,<BR/><BR/>In your last note you mentioned …<BR/><BR/>“PT is encouraging a lack of healing wheras many rape sites encourage healing. I see a lot of victims at PT. At rape recovery sites I see a lot of Survivors. There is a huge difference.”<BR/><BR/>I have to beg to differ. During our recovery from the MK MLM “dream,” posting on pinktruth.com was cathartic. What’s more, I can’t tell you how wonderful it was to find there were so many, many others out there who’d been stung by the bee; I wasn’t alone. I wasn’t insane. For the longest time I thought I was (we were) simply stupid. We certainly made out mistakes, many of them and we own responsibility for allowing ourselves to become so vulnerable. We are survivors of the MK MLM experience. Interestingly, it was thepinkingshears.com, home of the MK MLM Survivor, which was my first source of information re the MK MLM. I believe pinktruth.com is a wonderful source for information re the MK MLM and a great place for catharsis.<BR/><BR/>Again, I hope you can please accept my apology for stirring any painful memories from your assault. <BR/><BR/>BlessedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com